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Thread: The S&W M&P problem thread

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockshooter View Post
    Really Grant. You are killing me. I really dont get you sometimes. You are one of the most helpful guys on this forum and I have spent money buying gear from you, but you also say some of the stupidist stuff. I am actually offended that a pro-gun person like yourself would make such a stupid statement. No Glock has ever fired without someone pulling the trigger. I really wish you would stick to the same rules you want everyone else to go by. I had had about all the editorializing I can handle. You are defending MPs for the same things you are bashing Glocks for. I just wish a guy like yourself that is respected on this forum would act worthy of the respect people give you. All we want are facts not you defending your chosen weapon.

    Matt

    I am really sorry, but I have no idea what your upset about .

    The Glock IS the king of ND's SOLELY because you have to pull the trigger to break down the gun. Notice also, I said ND & NOT AD! Very important point. An AD can be a round cook off, mechanical failure or an ammunition failure. An ND is is a stupid user trick.

    Yes, we all know that you check the chamber on every gun you pick up and then re-check it before you disassemble it. This of course is a perfect world and one that we don't live in. Most people have very poor gun handling skills. The Glock pistol simply showcases this issue as you have to pull the trigger to break it down.

    Because of this, I consider the Glock a "flawed design" in that area. Guns that don't require one to pull the trigger to break the weapon down are a better choice for many (especially cops that think of their pen the same way they think of their gun).

    If you don't like my opinion, that is just fine with me, as we all have one.

    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 05-03-10 at 08:51.

  2. #102
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    My dept tested the 4th Gen G22 against the M&P 40, head to head. Most shooters liked the feel of the M&P's grip, but hated the trigger. And the M&P broke parts that tied up the gun. I believe it was the slide release and another part that came out-maybe a pin walked out.
    The G22 4th Gen went 8000 rounds trouble free, the trigger felt great and everyone thought the new grip was a big improvement, especially with small handed shooters.
    The M&P was a front runner due to a good trade-in deal with holsters, but even the M&P guys admitted that reliability was number one, so we stayed with Glock.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. Kelly View Post
    My dept tested the 4th Gen G22 against the M&P 40, head to head. Most shooters liked the feel of the M&P's grip, but hated the trigger. And the M&P broke parts that tied up the gun. I believe it was the slide release and another part that came out-maybe a pin walked out.
    The G22 4th Gen went 8000 rounds trouble free, the trigger felt great and everyone thought the new grip was a big improvement, especially with small handed shooters.
    The M&P was a front runner due to a good trade-in deal with holsters, but even the M&P guys admitted that reliability was number one, so we stayed with Glock.
    Can you tell us how many new pistols will be issued (in a Gen4 Glock thread)? We'd also sure appreciate you keeping us up to date on the Gen4 Glocks and how they pan out in the real world; of course in one of the Gen4 Glock threads.

    Thank you for sharing the info.

  4. #104
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    Not to nit pick, but how many glocks do you sell Grant?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobvila View Post
    Not to nit pick, but how many glocks do you sell Grant?
    How many would be enough for you?

    How many Glock's would I need to have own(ed) to form my opinions.

    How many rounds in training classes would I need to log to have the opinions I do?

    Not, "nit picking" your question, but I know where you are trying to go.


    C4

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by G34Shooter View Post
    Anyone have experience with RWS ammo made in Switzerland and sold in Walmart? I had 2 Failures to Fire in a box of 50 while qualifying, the primers were dented.
    Three FTF's in one box of 50. One round was a complete dud. After 13 strikes it wouldnt go off in my 5 inch pro, 4.25 9, 9c or my buddies g19.

    The other two ftf's went off on the second strike.

    Im thinking hard primers. I dont know if this was a bad run or what but the other 500 rounds of the swedish stuff have been just fine.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post
    Three FTF's in one box of 50. One round was a complete dud. After 13 strikes it wouldnt go off in my 5 inch pro, 4.25 9, 9c or my buddies g19.

    The other two ftf's went off on the second strike.

    Im thinking hard primers. I dont know if this was a bad run or what but the other 500 rounds of the swedish stuff have been just fine.

    This is the cheapest brass cased ammo in my area that doesn't feel like a squib going off, maybe I will try it again

  8. #108
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    close, but not quite there yet

    Here's my experience with M&P9s, 2 guns, approx 5000 fired:
    its a great design, extremely shootable, but with some QC flaws. Those flaws are fixable, and S&W will make it right. Still, I don't trust them out of the box, sight unseen.

    M&P9 #1:
    1500 rds without a hitch, super easy to shoot well, shot great, felt great, accurate, shot my best ever IDPA classifier (at the time) the first time I picked up. Then, I dropped it in the snow, brought it inside, and the slide rusted the next morning. No problem, I'd heard there was a bad run of finishes.
    Sent the gun back on S&W dime - S&W was very helpful and replaced the slide and barrel for free. Got the gun back, shot great, felt great, accurate, made SSP master with it. Put about 2500 rds through it this way. But, I was getting partial extraction every 200-500 rounds. I didn't know to check if it was with white box at the time. Also, put a pro sear in, had 1 failure to reset - hasn't reoccured since.

    Sent gun back for the 2nd time for extraction problems, S&W paid for everything. Got the gun back with new extractor, and apparently a new barrel. Another 2000 rds, zero function issues, the gun eats everything. But accuracy went out the window. To the point that I'm dropping 2X as many points, and can't shoot anything other than patterns, even from a bench. Went from dropping 10-20 pts on the classifier to 30-40 points.
    Sent the gun back to S&W last week for accuracy issue. On their dime. S&W customer service has been excellent - they aim to please. Haven't got the gun back yet.

    M&P9 #2: purchased a second M&P9 2 in March. It shoots well, reasonably accurate. In 1100 rds, 4 partial extractions - with WWB. Go figure. Also, had 1 light primer strike, the second strike ignited - maybe need to clean out the striker channel or put a heavier striker spring in - or maybe just a hard primer, I dunno.

    So my take - these are easily fixable issues, and S&W will make it right. Its a solid design, if it wasn't, there's no way Todd Green's gun could have performed like it did. But I've had too many little bugs for me to enthusiastically endorse yet.

    One of my IDPA buddies shoots an M&P9pro - same extraction issue every few hundred rounds.

    I love the things, but just don't think the M&P9 is quite there yet.

  9. #109
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    extraction

    one more thing....

    It's possible that all of the partial extractions might have been from WWB. I reload in bulk, and some of my brass is WWB. I only started checking the headstamps after Grant suggested it. If it is just WWB, then the problem is a little more palatable.
    Still, never had a problem shooting WWB out of a BHP or G19, so there's some room for improvement there.

    Looking forward to the Apex extractor.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHQuattro View Post
    Here's my experience with M&P9s, 2 guns, approx 5000 fired:
    its a great design, extremely shootable, but with some QC flaws. Those flaws are fixable, and S&W will make it right. Still, I don't trust them out of the box, sight unseen.

    M&P9 #1:
    1500 rds without a hitch, super easy to shoot well, shot great, felt great, accurate, shot my best ever IDPA classifier (at the time) the first time I picked up. Then, I dropped it in the snow, brought it inside, and the slide rusted the next morning. No problem, I'd heard there was a bad run of finishes.
    Sent the gun back on S&W dime - S&W was very helpful and replaced the slide and barrel for free. Got the gun back, shot great, felt great, accurate, made SSP master with it. Put about 2500 rds through it this way. But, I was getting partial extraction every 200-500 rounds. I didn't know to check if it was with white box at the time. Also, put a pro sear in, had 1 failure to reset - hasn't reoccured since.

    Sent gun back for the 2nd time for extraction problems, S&W paid for everything. Got the gun back with new extractor, and apparently a new barrel. Another 2000 rds, zero function issues, the gun eats everything. But accuracy went out the window. To the point that I'm dropping 2X as many points, and can't shoot anything other than patterns, even from a bench. Went from dropping 10-20 pts on the classifier to 30-40 points.
    Sent the gun back to S&W last week for accuracy issue. On their dime. S&W customer service has been excellent - they aim to please. Haven't got the gun back yet.

    M&P9 #2: purchased a second M&P9 2 in March. It shoots well, reasonably accurate. In 1100 rds, 4 partial extractions - with WWB. Go figure. Also, had 1 light primer strike, the second strike ignited - maybe need to clean out the striker channel or put a heavier striker spring in - or maybe just a hard primer, I dunno.

    So my take - these are easily fixable issues, and S&W will make it right. Its a solid design, if it wasn't, there's no way Todd Green's gun could have performed like it did. But I've had too many little bugs for me to enthusiastically endorse yet.

    One of my IDPA buddies shoots an M&P9pro - same extraction issue every few hundred rounds.

    I love the things, but just don't think the M&P9 is quite there yet.

    Good post. One thing is for certain, S&W has the best CS!

    I personally think that the 9mm M&P is the least reliable of the calibers with the 40 being the best followed by the 45. This is very different from most polymer guns as their 9mm's tend to be the most reliable.

    The answer to the 9mm extraction issues is to just not shoot WWB. That really isn't the answer though as this is typically the most shot ammo.

    I think we all have to remember that the Glock has more than 20yrs on the M&P. Time and large production runs are GREAT ways to debug your weapon.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 05-03-10 at 12:35.

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