The S&W M&P problem thread

[MarshallDodge]

I read this entire thrad and saw that a few people were having probems with accuracy out at the 25 yard line......

I have not tried shooting out to 25 yards with mine but it is very accurate with 180 grain plated bullets at 30 feet. It will make a ragged hole at that distance without much effort.

Like spamsammich said, try different ammo.

[crowkiller]

I was recently at an LE agency that is seeking replacements for their aging Sig P226's. Sig tried to push the abysmal P250's, but these were not well received; after dealing with some new problematic P226's, a decision was made to seek a new vendor. Glock was the strong favorite, however, the 4th gen G17's being trialed have met with a lukewarm reception due to a number of issues. The M&P was also meeting significant resistance--particularly regarding the perceived lousy trigger feel, slick grip surface, as well as mushy manual safeties.

This week we took several M&P45's and added the Apex duty kit (5.5 lbs-6 lbs measured trigger pull weight), along with grip stippling, and modified safeties. The difference in “shootability” was stunning; every time someone shot one of the enhanced M&P pistols, big goofy smiles spontaneously erupted. One of the experienced firearms instructors and long time G17 shooter fired better groups with the M&P45 w/Apex kit than with his personal G17 w/custom trigger--the target looked like he burned a single hole through it with a laser. Another officer commented that the M&P45 w/Apex kit was the first pistol he has shot that felt as good as a 1911.

I am definitely sold on the utility of the Apex Duty Kit, so much so that barring any unusual events, beginning next year, I plan on retiring the 1911’s I've used for the past 25 years in favor of M&P45’s w/ambi safeties and Apex Duty Kits installed.

What did yall do to the safety that made it feel better?

[DocGKR]

As noted in a couple of other posts, it takes just a couple of minutes to make the M&P ambi thumb safety more positive in function, like a 1911. This thread explains how to do the mod: http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.ph...3&#entry260473. You can use a file, Dremel, or dental drill to deepen the notch...

[jh9]

I read this entire thrad and saw that a few people were having probems with accuracy out at the 25 yard line. I was wondering if those guys got the problems fixed. I have had my M&P 40 since Feb. and have about 1200 rds thru it. The gun shoots very well out to 15yds but I cant get it to goup at 25. I shoot regularly and consider myself a good shot. I usually shoot in the high 90% range. But I cant seem to figure out what is going on with my M&P. It is really frustrating to me because I love this gun and want to keep carrying it and I have never had this kind of issue. I have practiced with all three of the back straps and nothing seems to work. Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated.

I'd love a definitive answer to the accuracy question as well. The point really came home about a month ago when I went to the range with some friends. We had some standard IDPA targets set up at 20 or 25 feet. With my 686, a Kahr MK9 and even a freaking Beretta 1934, 6 and 7 shot groups were all one hole. Granted, this isn't a supreme feat of marksmanship at the given distance-- but the M&P 9 that I had been shooting exclusively for the past 7 months (with 3-5 USPSA, 3-gun and IDPA matches per month)? No better than a silver dollar.

I've got just over 4200 through my M&P 9. Tried just about every brand of commonly available ammo in 115-, 124- and 147-grain loadings. Two different sight configurations. An Apex sear from the second run they did. Still printing silver dollar sized groups a 20-25 feet.

I absolutely love the gun except for the accuracy.

[WillBrink]

Still printing silver dollar sized groups a 20-25 feet.

I absolutely love the gun except for the accuracy.

I don't totally follow the above. All rnds through a silver dollar sized hole at 25 ft from a $400 +/- gun using standard ammo is problematic accuracy?

[jh9]

I don't totally follow the above. All rnds through a silver dollar sized hole at 25 ft from a $400 +/- gun using standard ammo is problematic accuracy?

Maybe it's all perspective, but I think so. I don't think I should be able to pick up two unfamiliar compact pistols-- much less a Beretta 1934 or a Kahr MK9-- and shoot them better than a full-size gun I've owned for several years, and have been practicing with exclusively since Christmas.

My M&P9 is great on unobscured cardboard or even larger poppers at modest distances, but I really have to slow down to make what should be relatively easy shots. Like I said, the slow fire comparison to the Beretta, Kahr and 686 is what drove the point home. If it were just another plastic wondernine, I don't think I'd care. But the gun is an almost perfect SSP/Production blaster in every other regard, so this really irritates me.

[JSantoro]

If it were me, and I'd eliminated all the other possible variables, that'd be the point at which I'd at least mull the thought of dropping in a match barrel, but that's if I could consistently shoot a pistol that well to begin with. I can't yet, so that's WAY down the road for me.

I was talking to gotM4 about something related, a couple of weeks back, and he'd mentioned doing a barrel swap really tightened one of his M&Ps up. Storm Lake, IIRC.....

[jh9]

If it were me, and I'd eliminated all the other possible variables, that'd be the point at which I'd at least mull the thought of dropping in a match barrel

...

I was talking to gotM4 about something related, a couple of weeks back, and he'd mentioned doing a barrel swap really tightened one of his M&Ps up. Storm Lake, IIRC.....

It does seem to be the next logical step. However, when the topic came up at benos a couple months ago, lots of people chimed in with varied results. Some have good luck with a drop-in match barrel. Others see little (if any) improvement.

There's still a rumor that Bar-Sto will be making a true non-drop-in get-it-fitted match barrel. That may be an answer, but given the inconsistency in how some guns shoot well with the factory/storm lake/kkm barrels while some don't...I don't know if the barrel is really the issue.

[jh9]

One of the guys posted this in the link above, and it got me thinking:

I've found that shooting groups with my M&P is more demanding than many other guns. I'm not sure why, but if I try a normal relaxed grip my groups are nowhere near as good (like double the size) compared to if I really grip the gun solidly. I don't have to work nearly as hard to shoot groups with a 1911. It's worth trying...can't hurt right.

If the M&P is sensitive to grip (not for function, but for accuracy) then that could explain why some people shoot it just fine and others have a hard time with it. A "tight" grip is relative to the person holding it. But if the pistol requires so much force exerted on the frame to maintain whatever accuracy its capable of, then that could explain some of the variability.

It could be (another) reason why some people don't see any improvement with the Storm Lake or KKM barrels. Hasn't it been mentioned here that the M&P unlocks really quickly compared to other designs? I wonder if grip (or a heavier recoil spring) would affect this. (Which would in turn affect accuracy.)

[Randy Lee]

It does seem to be the next logical step. However, when the topic came up at benos a couple months ago, lots of people chimed in with varied results. Some have good luck with a drop-in match barrel. Others see little (if any) improvement.

There's still a rumor that Bar-Sto will be making a true non-drop-in get-it-fitted match barrel. That may be an answer, but given the inconsistency in how some guns shoot well with the factory/storm lake/kkm barrels while some don't...I don't know if the barrel is really the issue.

Bar-Sto is in the process of making the barrels. I spoke to Irv about it before he started the project. We discussed the need for longer dwell time at length. The geometry of the bottom recoil lug needs to be changed along with the vertical locking surface dimensions. With any luck I should see a pre-production barrel in a few weeks.