The S&W M&P problem thread

[Dos Cylindros]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to add my thoughts on the slide stop design and auto forwarding issue.

First, I am of the opinion that the slide stop should not be used as a slide release. I do not believe that the slide stop was designed to be released while the slide is exerting forward force on it. Unlike the 1911, Beretta, Browning Hi Power etc. the M&P slide stop is stamped and folded sheet metal. The two halves are spot welded together just forward of the trigger pivot pin. When the slide is locked to the rear, the recoil spring is exerting a good amount of force against the retaining ledge on the left side. I have seen several samples of slide stops where the the retaining ledge of the sheet metal begins to round off thus making auto forwarding more likely to occur with less force when seating a magazine. In one case the notch in the slide was so rounded that the slide would forward as soon as the magazine was released. Whether the gun is auto forwarding or the slide stop lever is used to drop the slide, it accelerates wear on the slide as well as the slide stop.

The fact that the levers are ambidextrous complicates things because that side is like a spring board which is prone to flexing and therefore fatigue failure. Using the right side lever to drop the slide will result in parts breakage. For individuals using this procedure, it is not a question of if the slide stop will break, but WHEN. There are more than one example of broken slide stops on this and other forums.

This is why I recommend power stroking the slide to the rear when doing an E-reload. This takes all the pressure off the contact surfaces and reduces wear. This method also ensures that the slide gains maximum velocity when stripping a round into the chamber.
The only thing I use the slide stop lever for is to lock the slide to the rear when showing clear or disassembling the gun.

Randy

Randy;

This sounds like another great area for APEX to upgrade the M&P. How about a failure resistant slide stop lever. Once piece, tool steel or something like that. Have at it boys, PM for a spot to send my royalty checks Seriously, that would be a great product.

[Omega Man]

Makes sense Randy.

[Cazwell]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to add my thoughts on the slide stop design and auto forwarding issue.

First, I am of the opinion that the slide stop should not be used as a slide release. I do not believe that the slide stop was designed to be released while the slide is exerting forward force on it. Unlike the 1911, Beretta, Browning Hi Power etc. the M&P slide stop is stamped and folded sheet metal. The two halves are spot welded together just forward of the trigger pivot pin. When the slide is locked to the rear, the recoil spring is exerting a good amount of force against the retaining ledge on the left side. I have seen several samples of slide stops where the the retaining ledge of the sheet metal begins to round off thus making auto forwarding more likely to occur with less force when seating a magazine. In one case the notch in the slide was so rounded that the slide would forward as soon as the magazine was released. Whether the gun is auto forwarding or the slide stop lever is used to drop the slide, it accelerates wear on the slide as well as the slide stop.

The fact that the levers are ambidextrous complicates things because that side is like a spring board which is prone to flexing and therefore fatigue failure. Using the right side lever to drop the slide will result in parts breakage. For individuals using this procedure, it is not a question of if the slide stop will break, but WHEN. There are more than one example of broken slide stops on this and other forums.

This is why I recommend power stroking the slide to the rear when doing an E-reload. This takes all the pressure off the contact surfaces and reduces wear. This method also ensures that the slide gains maximum velocity when stripping a round into the chamber.
The only thing I use the slide stop lever for is to lock the slide to the rear when showing clear or disassembling the gun.

Randy

very helpful post, thanks. Good tips in terms of running the gun, but also a great explanation as to why some M&P's auto forward so much easier than others.

[Randy Lee]

Randy;

This sounds like another great area for APEX to upgrade the M&P. How about a failure resistant slide stop lever. Once piece, tool steel or something like that. Have at it boys, PM for a spot to send my royalty checks Seriously, that would be a great product.

Just one more product we will be working on in the near future...

-Randy

[sniperfrog]

Because of this website and all the great things said about the M&P (2 years ago) I bought 2 M&Ps, a shit ton of mags for them, holsters, and sights.

Then I had to get the new 5th gen strikers (don't break as easy), Apex parts to smooth out the gritty trigger and new sear blocks with the larger spring/plunger to avoid dead trigger with Apex parts.

Now I hear about barrel lockup and accuracy not being what it should be, slide stops that shouldn't be used as a release, issues with mags, etc, etc...

Now I'm thinking I made a mistake and should have just bought Glocks instead (2 years ago).

I think S&W needs to take an armorers course by Randy Lee.

[Omega Man]

Because of this website and all the great things said about the M&P (2 years ago) I bought 2 M&Ps, a shit ton of mags for them, holsters, and sights.

Then I had to get the new 5th gen strikers, new sear blocks with the larger spring/plunger and Apex parts.

Now I hear about barrel lockup and accuracy not being what it should be, slide stops that shouldn't be used as a release, issues with mags, etc, etc...

Now I'm thinking I made a mistake and should have just bought Glocks instead (2 years ago).

Ive been waiting on the M&P's for the same reasons and now its go time. I will be ordering one from Grant with all the extra goodie's. You would have been better off waiting until the kinks were worked out.

[Mauser KAR98K]

So, are the M&P's better and more reliable now than from what has been previously posted? I like the feel of them and the weight, but I'm considering an XD in .45 for reliability (and ammo count) purposes.

[Randy Lee]

So, are the M&P's better and more reliable now than from what has been previously posted? I like the feel of them and the weight, but I'm considering an XD in .45 for reliability (and ammo count) purposes.

I believe so. Smith has changed the barrel design, implemented the .125" sear spring and plunger, new striker assembly and trigger bar. They have resolved the rust issue with the slides and barrels as well as the magazines. They redesigned the mag base plates as well.

Smith has been moving towards delivering a better product overall.

[Biggy]

Does anyone know if currently made M&P fullsize 9mm pistols are more accurate with all bullet weights (115gr-147gr) than they were a year or two ago ? Has S&W changed anything yet to improve and get more consistent accuracy on the 9mm pistols?

[spamsammich]

Because of this website and all the great things said about the M&P (2 years ago) I bought 2 M&Ps, a shit ton of mags for them, holsters, and sights.

Then I had to get the new 5th gen strikers (don't break as easy), Apex parts to smooth out the gritty trigger and new sear blocks with the larger spring/plunger to avoid dead trigger with Apex parts.

Now I hear about barrel lockup and accuracy not being what it should be, slide stops that shouldn't be used as a release, issues with mags, etc, etc...

Now I'm thinking I made a mistake and should have just bought Glocks instead (2 years ago).

I think S&W needs to take an armorers course by Randy Lee.

No please! Shoot the shit out of these guns. I want to know what these guns do with Apex parts in the hands of somebody that shoots as much as you do. So far I trust mine more than a Gen4 G19 Let us know how yours are holding up. This is definitely a case of dont' believe what you read and the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Everyone I know with a newer gun (new sites, trigger bar, sear block, etc) really digs their gun except for the faint reset. The guys I know that don't shoot Glocks don't even mention the reset.