Blackhole Weaponry Barrels ?

[CC556]

Think of rifling like juggling

It's easier to juggle three items than it is to juggle four.

Also the tooling could cost less or last longer. Both very desirable things to a tool and die man.

The 3 groove thing really isn't about what's easier to make. There are people in the precision world who swear by 3 groove barrels. Personally, I've had a Lilja 3 groove barrel on a bolt gun, and I currently have a Benchmark 3 groove barrel on another bolt gun. Both barrels are stunningly accurate. On Lilja's site he says this about 3 groove barrels:


http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilj..._barrels.htm#3 Groove and 6 Groove

Q. What are the differences between 3 Groove and 6 Groove Barrels?

A. Almost all of the caliber and twist combinations in the rifle barrels we make are available with 6 lands and grooves. A few years ago we started to make barrels in a 3 groove configuration too at the request of some varmint hunters who were looking for longer barrel life. They were chambering barrels for hot 22 caliber varmint rounds and shooting the throats out of conventional 6 groove barrels fairly fast. We reasoned that if we reduced the number of grooves to 3 but kept the ratio of land to groove width the same (ie. the lands are twice as wide in a 3 groove barrel as compared to a 6 groove) that there would be more land area to resist heat erosion.

Well, it turned out that barrel life did increase and that accuracy stayed at least the equal of comparable 6 groove barrels. It is hard to put a percentage increase on barrel life but a conservative estimate might be 20%.

Benchrest shooters are always experimenting and looking for a competitive edge. Before long a few shooters, including Dan Lilja, were putting 3 groove barrels in 6PPC and 22 Waldog on their light varmint and heavy varmint class benchrest rifles. And these barrels proved to be very accurate. They started winning benchrest matches and soon became popular among the benchrest shooters. .

On the right is Dan with a .193" 200 yard group fired at a benchrest match in Billings Montana in 1998.

This was with a 6 mm PPC 13" twist 3-Groove Barrel.

And we found that as a side benefit the 3 groove barrels seemed to foul very little and clean up quickly. We attributed this to the reduced number of corners inside collecting powder and copper fouling.

This answer to 3 groove - 6 groove question is not meant to discredit the 6 groove barrels. They have consistently shoot extremely well over the years. Dan continues to shoot both 6 and 3 groove barrels on his benchrest rifles. But if you haven't tried a 3 groove you might consider one the next time you need a barrel. We do not offer them in all of our caliber and twist combinations. Our page with caliber and twist listings indicates if a 3 groove barrel is available. And we are frequently adding 3 groove buttons to our offerings. If you don't see that a 3 groove version is offered in the caliber and twist you're looking for, ask, we might soon be making it.

[mgraff]

Major benefit in my mind is increased life, slower throat errosion. I used a Lilja 3 groove on my 6.5-284 for just this reason. Accuracy is OUTSTANDING and after 700rnds in I have not had to reset my dies for a longer OAL, less than .002 change that I can measure, pretty good given the caliber.

I expected @ 1500 rnds before I re-barreled or set back...might get 2500-3000??? Fingers crossed.

[maindish]

I know this is an ancient thread, but it seems an appropriate place to support a good vendor.

Disclaimer: my Blackhole build was never intended to be a service rifle, but an accurate range toy. I firmly believe that chrome lining is not a benefit in anything other than a service rifle and is arguably detrimental to accuracy.

That said, I owe Carl some publicity for his excellent service. My new upper was experiencing FTE at an alarming frequency. This was using a Spikes BCG and a Rainier forged upper. Headspacing was good and I tried dialing the gas up and down with no success. I blamed first the upper and changed to a Mega billet upper so I could play with my Young NM side charger (again, not a service rifle, not sure I would recommend the NM carrier for that).

Problem did not go away and I blamed the barrel ext and/or chamber. Blackhole told me to send it right in and they'd make it right. I was nervous to do so since the panic started in December and vendors ceased to provide real customer service. I was surprised to have Carl call me within a day of receipt of the upper. He checked the chamber and found no issues but discovered that the carrier was impacting the front of the upper. He offered to machine the carrier for me at no cost. Neither the carrier nor the upper are his product. Anyways, I didn't want that upper to be forever tied to that carrier so I declined. He called the owner of Mega for me and discussed it and he is managing the repair/rebuild. That is above and beyond, so he deserves an attaboy.

My buddy bought a Blackhole at the same time and is having excellent results. I for one would like to see this company succeed. They offer a lot of interesting chamberings and I will be buying more in the future.

Whether it is correct or not, I've read that odd-numbered rifling profiles offer less resistance to bullet travel because the bullet material deforms more easily.

McGraff, if you read this, what platform is your 6.5-284 barrel? I've been wanting to work with that cartridge.

[AKDoug]

So, the problem occurred with a Spikes BCG/Rainier upper AND a Youngs BCG/Mega upper? Sure doesn't sound like an upper issue at all? The bolt carrier seats up against the barrel extension and really can't strike the upper unless there was a huge machining error. Unlikely on two well regarded uppers.

[maindish]

So, the problem occurred with a Spikes BCG/Rainier upper AND a Youngs BCG/Mega upper? Sure doesn't sound like an upper issue at all? The bolt carrier seats up against the barrel extension and really can't strike the upper unless there was a huge machining error. Unlikely on two well regarded uppers.

I thought the same thing. I'm a pretty capable guy with such things and I ended up getting frustrated and blaming the barrel by process of elimination.

Ultimately I think the story may not be done yet, but the carrier was striking the inside of the upper, evidenced by a ring of worn off anodizing in the front.

I would assume the YM side charger and Mega upper were co-developed, so I was surprised. I'll update when it comes back.

[maindish]

AKDoug, from Alaska? I just sold an AK to a Doug from Juneau a few weeks ago.

[offroader1006]

BHW are good people

[Stickman]

BHW are good people

That is what I'm hearing as well. I'm working on a review of two of their barrels currently.

[AKDoug]

AKDoug, from Alaska? I just sold an AK to a Doug from Juneau a few weeks ago.

Nope. Different Doug. AK = Alaska though.


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[officerX]

I have a 10.5 Blackhole Weaponry barrel on a PSA upper that I'll be using on a PSA lower I'm going to build as a pistol until I can get an SBR stamp. I hope to have the lower built this week and be able to shoot the thing this weekend. Hopefully I'll like the BHW as much as the rest of you all have.