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Thread: AAR: Progressive FORCE Concepts, Carbine 1&2, May 3-5 - CT

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    AAR: Progressive FORCE Concepts, Carbine 1&2, May 3-5 - CT

    **I originally posted this on ARFCOM, but since there are a number of folks who are members on both sites and some others who went to the PFC course the week before when it was held in New York, I thought it would be worthwhile to re-post.**

    I attended the Progressive FORCE Concepts (PFC) Defensive Carbine and Combative Carbine Skills training held May 3-5 in Wallingford, Connecticut. This was my 3rd carbine class, but my first with PFC. I had the opportunity last spring to train with Ray and Gerry in a 3-day pistol course that I found to be the best firearm course I had taken to date. When Ray said that he would be bringing PFC carbine training to Connecticut, I was very excited to say the least.

    The class was broken up into 2 elements – Day 1 was Defensive Carbine, Day 2 & 3 were Combative Carbine Skills. There were students who just signed up for Day 1, just signed up for days 2 & 3, and folks like me who went for the whole three days. I was very glad that I did. PFC is a company that not only trains military, government, law enforcement, and private citizens; they also have an operational division. The impressive cross-section of experience of their staff, combined with real world operational, no BS instruction is a major plus. Not flame intended, but they’re not there to sell any product – just to make everyone they train become more proficient and have the best chance of surviving and prevailing in a combative encounter. Up front, students are told that “always” and “never” will not be things that they hear much of during the course. “What saves your ass on Monday will get you killed on Tuesday” was one quote that struck a chord. The bad guys don’t follow a screenplay, so neither should you. Also, Ray at least twice said, “Don’t believe anything we say. Go home and put this all through your BS filter and decide whether it’s good to go or not.”

    Day 1 was way more than just “Carbine 101.” We started the morning promptly at 8am and the four PFC instructors introduced themselves – Ray, Gerry, Chris, and Mike. (I’ll let you read their bios. The backgrounds bring a lot to the table and they all worked together very well.) After the introductions, came the safety briefing, followed shortly thereafter with an overview of proper weapon maintenance & lubrication. This part was worth a million bucks because it seems like carbine maintenance is one of the most argumentative subjects out there, a lot of it by well-meaning, but ill-informed individuals. It was explained in very simple terms and demonstrated. From there, the discussion turned to accessories, optics, and why it’s important to buy quality stuff. These guys see hundreds of firearms go through their courses per month, so they have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was also a discussion on use of force in self defense that was really good. They even catered it to include discussions on Connecticut law since all of us were Connecticutish… Connecticutians… Connecticutters… whatever.

    Before we hit the range for zeroing, someone made a comment about slings, and Ray replied that PFC does not run slings on their guns. <insert gasp here> Their philosophy is very simple; A sling is like a holster, it brings your weapon to the fight and stores it after the fight. Would you keep your holster attached to your pistol while you’re using it? Then why would you keep your sling attached to your rifle? The argument was made that slings have a limited use – when you’re in a situation where you require retention such as… on a helicopter… on a ship… climbing… etc. Other than that, they may be more of a limiter than anything else – it can get hung up on stuff, prevent you from quickly changing positions, and prevent you from using your rifle as an impact or non-projectile weapon. If you can challenge the paradigm that, “I need a sling on my rifle at all times”, you may find that you’re better off, faster, and more efficient. I will let other students speak for themselves, but at the end of Day 3, I don’t think I saw any slings on any guns.

    After everyone was zeroed, we covered ready positions, reloads, transitions, and transfers all in pretty short order as the class was moving along very well despite a fairly varied experience level. The instructors provided the appropriate amount of attention to individuals throughout the course and adjusted based on our output. With the four instructors present, they really did “see everything”, so if you needed attention, guidance, or motivation, you got it. One thing that was evident early on in Day 1 was that everything you learned needed to be retained and used throughout the course. It was all about thinking for your self and putting it together.

    One of the drills that has become synonymous with PFC is “malfunction junction.” I had previously been through the junction in Ray & Gerry’s pistol course so I knew what to expect. I was both looking forward to it and fearing it. Just prior to actually running the junction, the instructors pulled everyone in for an explanation and demo of malfunction clearing… failure to fire, failure to unlock, failure to extract , double-feed, and the deadly brass over bolt were covered. In the explanation portion, some real world examples of these malfunctions are given, as well as some explanations of what causes them. After the demos are completed, the instructors take 6 rifles, 4 loaded magazines, and take about 5 minutes to set them up. The entire class lines up to take turns running through the junction. The task is to pick up each rifle and attempt to fire a standard defensive response, resolve any malfunctions (if needed), make the rifle safe, and move to the next one. Once the student gets to the 3rd rifle, the next student in line starts. If you get passed… it is bad. Oh yeah, and as you’re trying to go through the course, the instructors are applying a certain level of “encouragement” and even tell you to do the wrong thing just to throw you off track. If they grab you on the shoulder, it’s real guidance because of safety issue or a fatal level of frustration. Malfunction Junction has got to be one of the best training tools I’ve seen, and the instructors took the time to show students how to set it up if they wanted to run it at home.

    Day 2 & 3 had some new faces and we jumped right in with a review of shooting responses, multiple threat engagements, reactive movement, and traveling movement. We also saw a lot more of transfers and transitions. The instructors would break up the class into two relays during some courses of fire, but ran most of the relays next to each other which kept the whole class moving. We saw the dual relays a lot during the traveling movement portion. Another thing I liked was that you’d be getting ready to go on your 2nd time through the evolution thinking “okay, I’m going to go through this one with a full rifle magazine and this is gonna be cake.” Just then, an instructor would come up next to you, rip the magazine out of your rifle and tell you to transfer it to your support side and handle it as a failure to fire.

    Students were urged to make their own decisions based on the range of engagement and their skill/comfort level on whether to reload or transition. On several occasions, a cease fire would be called to reinforce the real world aspects of what we were doing. For example, I was completing an “Advancing L” drill, and when I transitioned to my pistol, I rushed and was sloppy with my handgun accuracy. Ray called me on it and reminded me (and the class) that lawyers are attached to every round that we fire. Same thing applied to students who were reloading their rifle when their threat was at close range. “Why wouldn’t you transition to your handgun when your threat is this close?” The PFC instructors took every opportunity to keep us in the real world mindset.

    Barricade tactics and the “Art of Exposure” proved to be a challenging part of Day 3. Like the rest of the course, the instructors were anxious to let the students figure it out for themselves after some demos. Depending on your flexibility, body type, and comfort level, everyone handled the barricades a little differently and with one instructor per barricade, there was plenty of advice, coaching, and commentary as you worked your way through them. We even saw a ninja move or two. One of the barricades was basically the size of a picnic table bench that was tipped over on its side which pretty much dominated everyone. That barricade was one that you really could not manage with a sling without going full retard… and you never want to go full retard.

    Before ending the day, we got into team tactics which was nothing short of awesome. We finished out Day 3 with one final run through malfunction junction. No expense was spared with the amount of misleading advice and BS that was fed to the students working their way through this time around, especially for the guys who had been there for all 3 days. Some gems that were shouted out were “check the brightness on the Aimpoint”, “that’s not a malfunction, that’s just a DPMS”, “don’t just stare at it, eat it”, and “work the charging handle a few more times, that’ll fix it.” As a display of support, students waiting for their chance to run the junction went into a front leaning rest, did flutter kicks, and there was even an appearance of Star-Man. I can easily say that everyone that went through the junction on Wednesday had vastly improved over the course of the 3 days which was a huge confidence builder. For fun, each of the instructors ran through the junction after the students and we had our opportunity to heckle them, which we took full advantage of. A little blood was spilled because of how I set up one of the malfunctions (brass over bolt) but we paid witness to the meaning of the “not dead, don’t quit” saying that we heard from PFC, by watching Ray do everything possible to get the rifle going, and he did.


    What I liked the most:


    Constantly reinforced training with real world mindset – getting out of the square range & paper mentality.

    Extremely positive attitude of the instructors. These guys love what they’re doing, and it’s contagious. They make you want to be awesome.

    Pace of the class was very good. Breaks were just enough to top off mags, pound some water, and stuff a granola bar in your stomach.

    Safety level was high. They run a hot range and do it very safely.

    There was no “our way is the only way” mantra. Encouraged to try new things, but put it through the BS filter.


    What I liked the least:

    Zeroing exercise on Monday went a little slow.

    I had to go back to work on Thursday.

    Went to the beach and my wife said that with the amount of bruises and cuts on me, I looked like a battered wife.

    I have to wait until August to take the next PFC course in Connecticut


    Equipment notes:

    1100 rounds – Tula 55gr FMJ

    250-300 rounds 9mm (WWB)

    I ran a PWA lower, LMT upper, with a BCM BCG. Aimpoint T-1 with LaRue BUIS. I had one malfunction over 3 days which was due to using a cartridge with a damaged case.

    Handgun was a Gen 3 Glock 19, only mod is Heinie sights.

    16” AR-type rifles dominated the course, with the exceptions being a Kel-Tec Sub2000, a SIG 556 (SCM), and a UMP clone.

    I tried to keep track of problems that other students had with their guns and the few that I saw were…

    - Doubling from two Olympic lowers
    - Unstaked castle nut came loose
    - Upper crapped out and had to be pulled off the line, I believe it was Del-Ton, unknown BCG

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    great AAR, very thorough, this is a good model of an AAR, you seem to have covered a lot of details on what to expect (i have a hard time remembering everything to cover).

    I was shocked by the sling thing, what do they do when there primary goes down? Just troublshoot it on the fly? I can see requiring a QD, but it seems like instead of thinking of "Would you keep your holster attached to your pistol while you’re using it" it would be more like not having a holster on your belt since the sling is there for when your not or cant use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    great AAR, very thorough, this is a good model of an AAR, you seem to have covered a lot of details on what to expect (i have a hard time remembering everything to cover).

    I was shocked by the sling thing, what do they do when there primary goes down? Just troublshoot it on the fly? I can see requiring a QD, but it seems like instead of thinking of "Would you keep your holster attached to your pistol while you’re using it" it would be more like not having a holster on your belt since the sling is there for when your not or cant use it.
    Thanks! I made notes at the end of each day otherwise I would have had a hard time too.

    Regarding the no sling philosophy, it's actually way more natural than I imagined it'd be. The answer to troubleshoot/reload/transition is "it depends" because it really does. This goes back to their "don't get wrapped around the axle of 'always' and 'never.'"

    For example, if you're 25 yards away from a threat, you're not going to stop and troubleshoot your primary, you're more likely to transition and deal with the threat while you seek cover or egress, right? But what if your threat is a guy with a Remington 700, screw transitioning, maybe you just flat out run for cover and not transition at all. What if he's got a Jennings .25 auto and he's in the open? What if you're behind good cover and have a teammate who can cover you? It depends.

    That real world mindset that PFC tried to instill in us was really evident with one litmus test; "Would I want to be the guy who fights against me while I'm doing x?" If the answer is yes, then that's a bad idea.

    To be clear, PFC did not advocate doing away with a sling completely as part of your kit, but the question of why it's attached to you and your rifle 100% of the time is a good one to ask. I wore my single point for the entire course and I hooked up for maybe a total of 10 minutes over the 3 days. It's there if you need it and like you said, if you've got a QD point, it's easy to use it if needed. But when you're in a gunfight, is your sling making your more effective, more deadly, and helping you win the fight? I think a lot of us found that it was more of an obstacle and that it slowed us down and/or reduced options. Speed of weapon transfer from dominant side to support side, and ability to move into a different shooting position was instantly increased by a whole bunch.

    The transition from primary to secondary is very straightforward; with your support hand, move the primary down to about pocket height against your body (out of your working space) and your dominant hand goes to your secondary. Your primary stays completely under your control the entire time. Versus having a single point or two point, there's a distinct advantage in not having to gravity drop and stow your rifle like you would with a sling; You're putting it exactly where you want it. If you need to run, it's not awkard. I was skeptical, but I gave it a shot and I'm absolutely a fan.

    Hope this helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rgaper View Post
    The transition from primary to secondary is very straightforward; with your support hand, move the primary down to about pocket height against your body (out of your working space) and your dominant hand goes to your secondary. Your primary stays completely under your control the entire time. Versus having a single point or two point, there's a distinct advantage in not having to gravity drop and stow your rifle like you would with a sling; You're putting it exactly where you want it. If you need to run, it's not awkard. I was skeptical, but I gave it a shot and I'm absolutely a fan.

    Hope this helps!
    that sounds like a standard transition, but if it's not slung, do you just hold it with your support hand while firing one handed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    that sounds like a standard transition, but if it's not slung, do you just hold it with your support hand while firing one handed?
    You got it.

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    and when your secondary goes dry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    and when your secondary goes dry?
    SHat your pants...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    and when your secondary goes dry?
    Depends on the situation. We trained a couple of different ways...

    If you're traveling during the engagement, you might want to just run full speed for your destination or for cover.

    If you need to continue the engagement, you might want to dump your primary and reload your handgun. I ended up in this situation - all I did was drop my rifle out of my support hand and my hand was already right next to my pistol mag carrier. Reloading was "normal" and I completed the engagement with 2 hands.

    If you can, you could also fix your primary. It all just depends on your threat and your situation.
    Last edited by rgaper; 05-12-10 at 12:45.

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    interesting

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    I was considering taking one of their carbine courses locally, this has me thinking twice about it.
    "It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner."

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