Which Twist Rate

[Fyrhazzrd]

Apparently you want to argue for the sake of arguing just as many do when they find out they made an un-informed decision. GotM4 and the others are trying to make you realize that with a 1/7 barrel you can shoot a wide range of projectiles up to at least 77gr. These rounds are proving to be more effective.

With a 1/9 you are limited as to what type of defensive rounds you can use. We at M4Carbine.net take issues of self defense more seriously than other well known websites.

So yes, unless you are just going to punch paper or dirt they are essentially worthless.

Please tell us what weapon you are referring to that the U.S military used that had a 1/11 twist? It surely wasn't the M16 because as far as I know they were either 1/12 or 1/14.

Honestly I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I just have a problem with someone saying just because of your twist rate, the gun is utterly useless. That implies the gun has zero uses whatsoever. It is a very poor choice in words. That is all I've been trying to say.

By some of the comparisons I've seen lately not to single one person out, but the one that sticks in my mind is from 5Pins. Saying that the 1:9 is useless because the 1:7 can shoot heavier rounds.

Okay by using that analogy a 720P plasma television is useless then, since there are Plasma televisions out there that can display 1080p.

I know a 1:9 is not the optimal twist rate, but it was what was available at the time when I purchased it. Not that I really care about that anyway. The only ammunition available locally is sub 70GR anyway.

I refuse to buy ammunition through mail order. I've had too much stuff stolen off of my doorstep even when the signature required box was checked. Most of the stuff I order mail order I have sent to my workplace, but they will not let me ship ammunition here.

And yes I was mistaken when I said 1:11 twist.. I meant 1:12. I was going off of memory from when I was in the military 20 years ago and was issued the 1:12 twist rate M16A1.

Edit: According to the forum rules debate is encouraged. I would definitely call this a debate.. A fairly heated debate, but still a debate..

[C4IGrant]

Honestly I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I just have a problem with someone saying just because of your twist rate, the gun is utterly useless. That implies the gun has zero uses whatsoever. It is a very poor choice in words. That is all I've been trying to say.

I think you must have a head like a rock. You state that you are done with this convo, but yet keep coming back to it.

When GotM4 and I state that 1/9 twist AR's are USELESS to us, well that is our opinion. So it isn't a "poor choice of words," it is our OPINION! If you think that a 1/9 twist barrel isn't USELESS, then that if fine.

By some of the comparisons I've seen lately not to single one person out, but the one that sticks in my mind is from TenPin. Saying that the 1:9 is useless because the 1:7 can shoot heavier rounds.

Okay by using that analogy a 720P plasma television is useless then, since there are Plasma televisions out there that can display 1080p.

I know a 1:9 is not the optimal twist rate, but it was what was available at the time when I purchased it. Not that I really care about that anyway. The only ammunition available locally is sub 70GR anyway.

I refuse to buy ammunition through mail order. I've had too much stuff stolen off of my doorstep even when the signature required box was checked. Most of the stuff I order mail order I have sent to my workplace, but they will not let me ship ammunition here.

And yes I was mistaken when I said 1:11 twist.. I meant 1:12. I was going off of memory from when I was in the military 20 years ago and was issued the 1:12 twist rate M16A1.

What you fail to understand is that this goes deeper than the twist rate. It gets into the quality of the barrel itself. Many of us have ZERO INTEREST in cheap, over gassed, .223 + chambered barrels. They are USELESS to us.

No need for you to justify your 1/9 barrel choice and issues with finding quality ammo locally (as we don't care). If you really wanted quality, you would get a box at the local UPS store and have it shipped there. Or work with one of your local FFL dealers to order you the ammo and pick it up there.


C4

[dew4au]

I think this whole discussion is a ploy by FyrHazzrd to get his post count up so he can post in GD.

Seriously, thanks for the info, guys.

[Fyrhazzrd]

I think you must have a head like a rock. You state that you are done with this convo, but yet keep coming back to it.

When GotM4 and I state that 1/9 twist AR's are USELESS to us, well that is our opinion. So it isn't a "poor choice of words," it is our OPINION! If you think that a 1/9 twist barrel isn't USELESS, then that if fine.



What you fail to understand is that this goes deeper than the twist rate. It gets into the quality of the barrel itself. Many of us have ZERO INTEREST in cheap, over gassed, .223 + chambered barrels. They are USELESS to us.

No need for you to justify your 1/9 barrel choice and issues with finding quality ammo locally (as we don't care). If you really wanted quality, you would get a box at the local UPS store and have it shipped there. Or work with one of your local FFL dealers to order you the ammo and pick it up there.


C4

No need for personal attacks. The only reason I responded is because I was quoted and accused of arguing for the sake of arguing. That's not the case at all.

I get it.. You have no use for a 1:9 barrel. That still doesn't mean it's useless.

I also get that the quality isn't there.. That's fine. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to purchase a better quality barrel. But when I click on the links to the barrels I'm interested in and they are all out of stock, and I request to be notified when they come in; and then 6 months later still have not been notified that they were in. Well I bought what was available. I got tired of waiting for something that might never come in. And btw 3 months after I purchased my barrel I finally get an email. So it would have been a 9 month wait.

Maybe if everyone is going to push these quality barrels on people, just so that everyone can shoot a heavier round then the manufacturers should possibly ramp up production to keep up with demand.

I also love how I'm the one being singled out in this thread. I'm not the only one who disagrees with the statement that they are useless. I'm just more opinionated, and therefore am the target of personal attacks.

I guess a person isn't entitled to his own opinion on this board.

[jmart]

As a point of reference, it may be useful for folks to reaquaint themselves with DocGKR's stickied 5.56 load thread on the ammunition board. He has a number of recommendations for various weapon configs and scenarios and he highlights the pros and cons of the various loads, including heavyweight OTMs, which are not a panacea for all situations.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

[Zeus]

Both sides of this story are a bit "ate up" at times... getting our feathers ruffled (everyone) over what some jack knob says on the other side of a keyboard SHOULD be utterly beneath us all.

[Zeus]

As a point of reference, it may be useful for folks to reaquaint themselves with DocGKR's stickied 5.56 load thread on the ammunition board. He has a number of recommendations for various weapon configs and scenarios and he highlights the pros and cons of the various loads, including heavyweight OTMs, which are not a panacea for all situations.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Wow... talk about on point as ammo selection drives twist.

[C4IGrant]

No need for personal attacks. The only reason I responded is because I was quoted and accused of arguing for the sake of arguing. That's not the case at all.

I get it.. You have no use for a 1:9 barrel. That still doesn't mean it's useless.

I also get that the quality isn't there.. That's fine. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to purchase a better quality barrel. But when I click on the links to the barrels I'm interested in and they are all out of stock, and I request to be notified when they come in; and then 6 months later still have not been notified that they were in. Well I bought what was available. I got tired of waiting for something that might never come in. And btw 3 months after I purchased my barrel I finally get an email. So it would have been a 9 month wait.

Maybe if everyone is going to push these quality barrels on people, just so that everyone can shoot a heavier round then the manufacturers should possibly ramp up production to keep up with demand.

I also love how I'm the one being singled out in this thread. I'm not the only one who disagrees with the statement that they are useless. I'm just more opinionated, and therefore am the target of personal attacks.

I guess a person isn't entitled to his own opinion on this board.

No one personally attacked you. Just stated the obvious.

You are being singled out because you are stating the same thing over and over and just don't seem to understand why the MAJORITY of us have no use for a 1/9 twist barrel.

You never needed to wait for a quality 1/7 twist barrel. Uppers and barrels are all over the net. You just needed to know where and how to look (and be ok with buying used).

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else is. I would read this first though: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19307


C4

[Todd.K]

...ammo selection drives twist.

No, any ammo recommended for the slower twist will be just as effective out of 1/7.

The 1/9 simply limits your choices, some of those are generally the best choice for HD where auto windshield penetration is not a concern.

[Zeus]

Ok, ok, I misspoke again... All 1/9 owners who are 55 gr only shooters need to go have their evil 1/9s melted down and rush out and buy a 1/7 they really don't need. All hail the 1/7 gods...

However, the original thread IS about a man needing a new barrel. That answer is an easy 1/7. The thread turned to "1/9 is worthless", which it is NOT if you already OWN it and only shoot 55 gr.