Which Twist Rate

[Boss Hogg]

GotM4- why do you think that 1/8 has not become a more popular choice?

How about 18" intermediate gas barrels- do you foresee more of these coming down the pike?

Seems like the USMC could really benefit from an 18" barrel on their A4s, combined with a Emod stock.

[Xpertz1]

I have one in 1-8 and a Wylde chamber. It is probably my most accurate AR.

[Fyrhazzrd]

I'm sure it would in a 1x9, but my 73-77gr stuff wouldn't and would be very scary with a suppressor hence my finding 1x9 useless.

Most people who purchase a 1:9 barrel know that they can't shoot the heavier rounds in it. But does it truly make a barrel useless? I'm sure if someone kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 55GR holes from a 1:9 twist barrel.. He would feel it just the same as someone who kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 77GR holes from a 1:7 twist barrel. They would both have exactly the same outcome. One dead bad guy.

So to say they are useless, I don't think it's an accurate statement. Maybe it's useless to you. But not for everyone.

But I will say after what I have learned over the last couple days, I will probably be purchasing a barrel from a better manufacturer here in the near future.

[Robb Jensen]

Most people who purchase a 1:9 barrel know that they can't shoot the heavier rounds in it. But does it truly make a barrel useless? I'm sure if someone kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 55GR holes from a 1:9 twist barrel.. He would feel it just the same as someone who kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 77GR holes from a 1:7 twist barrel. They would both have exactly the same outcome. One dead bad guy.

So to say they are useless, I don't think it's an accurate statement. Maybe it's useless to you. But not for everyone.

But I will say after what I have learned over the last couple days, I will probably be purchasing a barrel from a better manufacturer here in the near future.

You are correct but why limit one self?

They are useless to me and could be a liability.

[C4IGrant]

Most people who purchase a 1:9 barrel know that they can't shoot the heavier rounds in it. But does it truly make a barrel useless? I'm sure if someone kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 55GR holes from a 1:9 twist barrel.. He would feel it just the same as someone who kicked in my front door and I popped him full of 77GR holes from a 1:7 twist barrel. They would both have exactly the same outcome. One dead bad guy.

Useless depends on what you want to do with the gun. If you are into shooting dirt, then no. If you want the most effective fighting gun, then the heavier grain ammo out of a 1/7 twist gun is the way to go.

So to say they are useless, I don't think it's an accurate statement. Maybe it's useless to you. But not for everyone.

But I will say after what I have learned over the last couple days, I will probably be purchasing a barrel from a better manufacturer here in the near future.

1/9 twist guns are useless to me. As I stated in the other thread, besides the fact that 1/9 twist guns limit ones ammo options, they have also gotten a lesser quality gun (generally speaking).



C4

[Fyrhazzrd]

Useless depends on what you want to do with the gun. If you are into shooting dirt, then no. If you want the most effective fighting gun, then the heavier grain ammo out of a 1/7 twist gun is the way to go.



1/9 twist guns are useless to me. As I stated in the other thread, besides the fact that 1/9 twist guns limit ones ammo options, they have also gotten a lesser quality gun (generally speaking).



C4

So are you really telling me, that if I were to shoot someone in self defense of my home with my 1:9 barrel. That the guy would just stand there and say wow. I'm lucky that wasn't a 1:7 twist barrel, then I would have been screwed. Seriously you really expect me to believe that.

You have already talked me into getting rid of my 1:9 barrel for a better brand 1:7 barrel, but to say the only thing it's good for is shooting dirt.. Really? Are you really saying that if I were to shoot someone with my 1:9 barrel that they would just laugh it off?

[Belmont31R]

So are you really telling me, that if I were to shoot someone in self defense of my home with my 1:9 barrel. That the guy would just stand there and say wow. I'm lucky that wasn't a 1:7 twist barrel, then I would have been screwed. Seriously you really expect me to believe that.

You have already talked me into getting rid of my 1:9 barrel for a better brand 1:7 barrel, but to say the only thing it's good for is shooting dirt.. Really? Are you really saying that if I were to shoot someone with my 1:9 barrel that they would just laugh it off?

The best human stopper rounds in the AR are in the 70 grain range.


Thus for people who use rounds in the 70 grain range for HD/SD a 1x9 barrel is useless to them because they can't shoot that ammo.


My HD/SD round is the Mk262, and thus buying a 1x9 barrel for me would mean only shooting dirt with it.

If you shoot ammo in the upper 60's or less ONLY then 1x9 will be fine for you.


I don't think anyone made the claim shooting someone with a 1x9 barrel and sub 70 grain rounds could not kill someone. They are just not as effective over the long run as ammo in the upper 70's.

[Fyrhazzrd]

I don't think anyone made the claim shooting someone with a 1x9 barrel and sub 70 grain rounds could not kill someone. They are just not as effective over the long run as ammo in the upper 70's.

No they are just claiming that a 1x9 is completely useless for shooting anything other than dirt. So that implies that it will not kill someone. I'm seeing an awful lot of biased opinions coming out. I'm not saying that 1x9 barrels aren't junk, apparently they are. But I would never make a claim saying that they are completely useless either.

I remember not so long ago that the military used 1x11 twist rates in all of their barrels. I seem to remember them doing a lot of killing back then.

[Chameleox]

So are you really telling me, that if I were to shoot someone in self defense of my home with my 1:9 barrel. That the guy would just stand there and say wow. I'm lucky that wasn't a 1:7 twist barrel, then I would have been screwed. Seriously you really expect me to believe that.

I think you're missing the point. Its not a question of whether or not a bad guy will shrug off a stabilized from a 1/9 barrel, versus a 1/7 barrel. Over simplified.

Grant and GotM4 are trying to explain 3 basic points:
1. 1/7 twist barrels will tend to stabilize a wider range of training, varminting, and defensive ammo than 1/9's will. This translates into ammo versatility for training or varied uses.
2. Factory guns shipping with 1/7 barrels tend to have better barrel quality (and overall quality) than those that ship with 1/9's. Think Colt, LMT, BCM, etc., compared to Bushmaster, Olympic, RRA, DPMS, etc. Also look at the intended customers of those companies.
3. More and more duty/military/defensive ammo is being developed with longer, ergo heavier, bullet designs. Not being a ballistics nerd or an employee of an ammo manufacturer, all I can see is that the rounds that are being used in defense of life, property, society and country, tend to be of the 62 grain and up variety.

[Fyrhazzrd]

I think you're missing the point. Its not a question of whether or not a bad guy will shrug off a stabilized from a 1/9 barrel, versus a 1/7 barrel. Over simplified.

Grant and GotM4 are trying to explain 3 basic points:
1. 1/7 twist barrels will tend to stabilize a wider range of training, varminting, and defensive ammo than 1/9's will. This translates into ammo versatility for training or varied uses.
2. Factory guns shipping with 1/7 barrels tend to have better barrel quality (and overall quality) than those that ship with 1/9's. Think Colt, LMT, BCM, etc., compared to Bushmaster, Olympic, RRA, DPMS, etc. Also look at the intended customers of those companies.
3. More and more duty/military/defensive ammo is being developed with longer, ergo heavier, bullet designs. Not being a ballistics nerd or an employee of an ammo manufacturer, all I can see is that the rounds that are being used in defense of life, property, society and country, tend to be of the 62 grain and up variety.

Nope I'm not missing the point. I get all of that and I agree with it.

What I don't understand is a blanket statement saying it is completely useless.

I can with 100% certainty guarantee that I can kill a person with one bullet from a 45-55 GR FMJ 1x9 twist 16" AR15.