Gear and Employment Considerations for LE

[wolverineSIERRA]

BFG Ten Speed (from SKD of course) for quick rifle deployments.

can i ask you why 4, 30rds mags when your a LEO? i know tier 1 guys who carry less mags

[CENTCOM_Survivor]

can i ask you why 4, 30rds mags when your a LEO? i know tier 1 guys who carry less mags

I also carry two on my rifle for six total. It's one less mag than I carried in the Army so I feel a little naked.
If I have to deploy my rifle its not for looks and there is no way I'm getting caught short when the bullets start flying.
I know for a fact other Deputies are showing up with maybe two magazines. I have yet to do any training in which our ammo guy does a re-supply and that doesn't cut it in my book. Who do you want showing up when the sh*t hits the fan (not you personally, just a general question)?
If you've ever read the book Terror at Beslan then you know where I'm coming from. I'm a firm believer that terrorists are coming for our kids and I cant believe every LEO in America isn't carrying at least a combat load.

[wolverineSIERRA]

i understand where u coming from but, chances of a police officer getting into a shoot out where he ends up spenting 5 30rd mags is highly unlikley and also very scary, specially if the officer is sending rounds downrange in a controlled and professinal manner, i am saying this cause my brother in law is a police cheif and they just started a new tactical SRT unit, and they asked for my opinion on weapons, gear and i helped out with giving them my opinion and feedback, one of the things i said was no officer should carry or needs to carry more than one mag in the gun and 2 or 3 spare

[usmcvet]

wolverineSIERRA

Can you tell us what your qualifications are and why you would suggest no cop would ever need more than two or three spare magazines? I think 4 in the chest rig and two on the gun is pretty reasonable and a good balance. It is also likely more than needed to handle most situations. That is the way it should be.

What is a tier 1 guy?

When the officer made his decision to carry a chest rig with 4 mags he had his reasons. Blanket statements like "no officer should carry or needs to carry more than one mag in the gun and 2 or 3 spare" should be avoided. His load out is only two more than you suggest.

Why do I carry two spare magazines for my Glock 22 when it's "unlikely" I will ever need 46 rounds? I do it because it is a balance I'm willing to deal with daily. Like most things in law enforcement, and life, it is all about being reasonable. I know officers who were involved in a 45 min shoot out with only their pistols who expended all of their ammunition. They were dealing with a man with an AR who'd killed two cops and several civilians. Most of the cops there were out gunned by the bad guy. I don't want that to happen to me or any other cop, ever! This was before patrol rifles were available to most of us. That incident is burned in my mind. I say Never Again! The fight was stopped when Drega was killed by an officer with a patrol rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Drega

Do you know where this cop works or where I work? Do you know who this officer will have for back up and what type of weapons the backup will bring to the fight? I carry a bandoleer with 4 AR mags and 2 Pistol mags. During the Gulf War I carried 12 magazines, 9 on my web gear, one in my rifle and two in the pockets of my flak jacket. I always had my flak jacket and weapon with me.

4 spare magazines is a reasonable amount of ammo to carry.

[Iraq Ninja]

The ammo you carry may not only be for you, but for your fellow soldiers or officers.

[SIGguy229]

The ammo you carry may not only be for you, but for your fellow soldiers or officers.

Exactly....I carried my basic load....our vehicles had spare ammo in them...but I also had another basic load in my go-bag...just in case.

I was also told "You'll never be issued a rifle..." In 1997, a month into my deployment, I was issued an A2 plus basic load....and deployed with a rifle on every single deployment since then.

Thus, whenever I hear "You'll never need..." I automatically dismiss whatever is being said in the context of the discussion....

[usmcvet]

The ammo you carry may not only be for you, but for your fellow soldiers or officers.

Very true. Murphy's Law has a way of messing things up. Gear is lost, misplaced, moved, borrowed or simply forgotten. Especially during times of high stress.

[Chameleox]

I carry 1 in the gun and 3 spares for my patrol/active shooter load. I consider that light. USMCvet was spot on: we all carry spare pistol mags, but will likely never use them, the same goes for rifle mags. If the day is bad enough that you have to put on your active shooter gear, then you need more than one or two spare mags, plain and simple.
The Beslan incident is a good example. IIRC, the first responding snipers expended their ammo very quickly, something like 100 rounds. If you've read Giduck's book, or Grossman's (or listened to either of them), or read any significant analysis of the Mumbai attacks (that place is coming off my travel list), then you'll recognize that the day that it happens in America is coming.

I can think of a few very rare moments where an LEO would need to use a more controlled version of suppressive/directed fire. Will it ever happen to me? likely not, but when it does, I'll be glad that I have enough ammo to sustain the incident, regardless of what a Tier 1 operator has to say.
"Murphy's Law has a way of messing things up. Gear is lost, misplaced, moved, borrowed or simply forgotten. Especially during times of high stress." Lets not forget having to strip a magazine or two for malfunctions.

[CENTCOM_Survivor]

Well I refrained from posting that I also have a bandoleer with 4 more full mags as I thought it might set wolverineSIERRA over the top, but after he said this "i said was no officer should carry or needs to" all bets are off. In fact If I had more duty ammo I'd fill every magazine I owned.
I think the problem with most citizens and for some officers is they have never been overseas and had to deal with the terrorist threat up close and personal. Most want to bury their head in the sand and say its not going to happen here, which is insane.
I'm afraid you will be able to come back to these posts after a major US attack by trained and motivated terrorists and say "wow that dude had a point, the police were totally overwhelmed".
I work for a pretty big agency and I think just about every patrol/special op Deputy has a long gun. We train active shooter etc but I think we would still be overwhelmed by 10 to 12 trained terrorists in a Beslan or even Mumbai style type attack.
If I'm the first one on the scene I'm showing up to win no matter how bad the odds are.
I'm no hero or Rambo but if some of us don't think and prepare like this, who will,,, your brother-in-laws agency (nothing personal)?

[afff_667]

Thus, whenever I hear "You'll never need..." I automatically dismiss whatever is being said in the context of the discussion....

Excuse me for putting my inexperienced, just-trying-to-learn-as-much-as-possible nose into this thread, but I'm going to write this statement down in several places for future reference.