checked out a "Remington" 1911 R1 at the gunshop today

[opmike]

I'm interested to see how the quality will be over the entire line, since this is just a single example. Hopefully they won't all be pieces of slop. I guess time will tell.

[Assy Mcgee]

I'm interested to see how the quality will be over the entire line, since this is just a single example. Hopefully they won't all be pieces of slop. I guess time will tell.

well, i've been reading reports on other forums that mention the same quality, so i don't think it's just an isolated incident, unfortunately.

if you read the shooting times report too, there were multiple FTF & FTE issues.


i'd have to say, that's prob the worst fit 1911 i've seen in a long time....

[Assy Mcgee]

[Army Chief]

I'm chalking this one up to market saturation and price compression. Now that everyone and their brother is manufacturing a 1911, a production model from the likes of a big company like Remington has to undercut the Colts and Kimbers of the world, and still be able to turn a profit.

That means putting out a very basic gun with very basic features and a very basic approach to putting them together. Not that we needed another Auto Ordnance-grade 1911, but when you do the math, I'm not sure how we could have ever hoped for much more. We should have known that this particular blind date was coming with a "nice personality," and little else.

AC

[opmike]

well, i've been reading reports on other forums that mention the same quality, so i don't think it's just an isolated incident, unfortunately.

if you read the shooting times report too, there were multiple FTF & FTE issues.


i'd have to say, that prob the worst fit 1911 i've seen in a long time....

That's a damn shame.

It's ridiculous the prices "quality" 1911's demand these days. It's cheaper to get a tough as nails carbine than it is to get a tough as nails 1911 it seems. When we start getting up to the 1,000+ dollar .45's for serious use, you might as well just get an HK45 and be done with it; assuming you don't have the extra money to burn.

We need a BCM 1911.

[Aray]

Unfortunately, it seems you still get a $600 1911 for $600. I'm only surprised that people are surprised.

[Army Chief]

We need a BCM 1911.

</thread>

AC

[Business_Casual]

It's ridiculous the prices "quality" 1911's demand these days.

Not really, they take a lot of hand-fitting and skill, both of which are expensive. Quality steel is also expensive.

It's cheaper to get a tough as nails carbine than it is to get a tough as nails 1911 it seems.

Of course it is, one was a turn-of-the-century design done when skilled labor was cheap, the other an attempt to apply mass-production and materials advancements from the aircraft industry to a firearm.

When we start getting up to the 1,000+ dollar .45's for serious use, you might as well just get an HK45 and be done with it; assuming you don't have the extra money to burn.

Yes, it is 2010. Time to end the romance.

We need a BCM 1911.

BCM are good but they can't solve production and engineering problems any more than Kimber or Colt can/could/can't.

B_C

[opmike]

BCM are good but they can't solve production and engineering problems any more than Kimber or Colt can/could/can't.

I'm not seriously expecting BCM to start manufacturing a 1911. It was more a sarcastic comment on the state of affairs with 1911's today.

[Army Chief]

I thought that was pretty evident: a solid low-fanfare 1911 that is well-built, and reasonably priceda la the current BCM AR recipe. Of course, it is entirely true that the ingredients aren't really comparable, as the bench time required to get a 1911 right is always going to be a factor. Not even BCM could pull that off in real terms.

Designs of this vintage, whether we're talking about the 1911, the P-08 or any other early autoloader, were produced at a time when skilled labor was cheap, and technology was expensive. We find ourselves in precisely the opposite situation today, which is why a good 1911 will still deliver the goods -- but it will never come cheap.

Outside of professional and racegun circles, it was really the 10-round magazine restriction in place a decade ago that led to a resurgence in interest in major caliber guns like Old Slabsides. There was a certain practicality to that, save for the fact that people wanted a 1911 that worked at a price that was closer to the Glocks, SIGs, Berettas and S&Ws they had grown accustomed to during the Wondernine years.

The market responded ... but not very well. Colt failed to innovate. Kimber delivered more features at a decent pricepoint, but used a lot of cost-saving MIM components to do it. Without running down the full roster, what emerged was the general idea that you were rolling the dice with a sub-$1k 1911. You could do all right at $1,500 or so, and if you really became a student of the design, $2k would get you into premium semi-custom territory.

It was a migration for most, until the ban ended, and suddenly the market was again split in two: those who had grown to think that an expensive 1911 was still the right gun, and those who were just as happy to go back to the much newer (and far less costly) polymers. Many companies have tried to reinvent the middle ground, where less than a Grand would net you a decent entry 1911, but as we're seeing time and again, it simply can't be done because of the labor costs involved.

How on earth I ever ended up jamming out this missive is beyond me, but the R1's MSRP tells you everything that you really need to know.

AC