Page 7 of 16 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 153

Thread: Be an informed consumer!

  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,631
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin_Nichols View Post
    Thanks for the serene reply and though we don't necessarily see eye to eye, I think we can simply agree to disagree on many of the points discussed.

    Regardless of that, best of luck to Paul and BCM.
    I am not sure what there is to disagree about. I know how Paul put his rifle program together, I know where his data comes from and why he does what he does. You do not. You can either believe what I am telling you or not.


    C4

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    47
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am not sure what there is to disagree about. I know how Paul put his rifle program together, I know where his data comes from and why he does what he does. You do not. You can either believe what I am telling you or not.


    C4
    Well, since you put it that way, we disagree that the documents shown prove anything other than what they show. We disagree that you have verified anything asserted, and we disagree that so-called marketing data requires more than blind faith. We disagree about what the TDP calls out for proof loads, and because of that, we must disagree that you've actually seen it. And we obviously disagree that there is another way for a manufacturer to legally and ethically acquire Colt's intellectual property without theft, third party contract breach, or US Government contract award.

    I guess since we don't have to agree to that, we just plain disagree!
    Austin Nichols = Wild Turkey

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,631
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin_Nichols View Post
    Well, since you put it that way, we disagree that the documents shown prove anything other than what they show. We disagree that you have verified anything asserted, and we disagree that so-called marketing data requires more than blind faith. We disagree about what the TDP calls out for proof loads, and because of that, we must disagree that you've actually seen it. And we obviously disagree that there is another way for a manufacturer to legally and ethically acquire Colt's intellectual property without theft, third party contract breach, or US Government contract award.

    I guess since we don't have to agree to that, we just plain disagree!


    Have you ever looked at the TDP? If you have not, then how could you disagree with anything (as you don't know what you don't know)?

    You disagree with what I have verified and stated because you are trying to play devils advocate and ignoring all common sense. So in that case, don't waste any more BW and keep out of my thread (as you are wasting everyones time).

    As far as an illegal TDP, I would guestimate that 80% of all AR manufacturers and AR part manufacturers have a copy of it in some form or another (FYI). It is easy to reverse engineer most of it (if you are willing to spend the money and time).


    C4

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    7488 ft.
    Posts
    2,458
    Feedback Score
    18 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    LOL, could be. Why anyone would be upset about knowing what they don't know is beyond me.

    C4
    I just cried. There are 16 x AR15s in my safe, and only three of them measure up. Two are high power match guns so they don't count. Some are stainless spr type guns, so they don't really count either although now I feel they are inferior compared to the Noveske 416R barrels described above. 6 which are inferior are non-mil spec CL barrels. Dang! Now I am on a mission to upgrade...

    Thanks for the great info.

    Does anyone have the specs for M249 barrel steel for comparison?

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    47
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Have you ever looked at the TDP? If you have not, then how could you disagree with anything (as you don't know what you don't know)?

    You disagree with what I have verified and stated because you are trying to play devils advocate and ignoring all common sense. So in that case, don't waste any more BW and keep out of my thread (as you are wasting everyones time).

    As far as an illegal TDP, I would guestimate that 80% of all AR manufacturers and AR part manufacturers have a copy of it in some form or another (FYI). It is easy to reverse engineer most of it (if you are willing to spend the money and time).


    C4
    I hope our discussion hasn't been a waste of folk's time; I've learned quite a bit in the course of it. And as far as not knowing what I don't know you must have misread my original comment regarding Colt's TDP but it doesn't really matter. I see where you're coming from so we're all good. Thanks for your time.
    Austin Nichols = Wild Turkey

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    11
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    Wouldn't mil-spec be better described as the MINIMUM standard than lowest acceptable quality?
    I thought that mil-spec meant the LOWEST acceptable quality from the lowest bidding company that the US Govt will accept for a fighting gun.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    cincinnati
    Posts
    296
    Feedback Score
    6 (88%)
    guys i want to apologize for my comments. i was and am misinformed and the lack of me being able to put into words what im thinking makes me look and feel like an ass. i apologize to who i offended, and to grant for making ASSumptions.
    Last edited by fivefivesix; 09-15-10 at 12:51.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,177
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    it sounds like someone is getting kickbacks from bcm. yeah there a great company but so is spikes
    This thread is about BCM rifles and the importance of knowing what you're buying, ie, being an informed consumer. It is not a Spike's gripe thread. This has been discussed time and time again on this forum, and that discussion is over. Go and read the thread on it, and if you are unhappy with the results of that discussion you may contact the individual in question via private message.

    It's people like you who have given Spike's a bad reputation to some on this forum. Please be constructive or go somewhere else.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,325
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
    I thought that mil-spec meant the LOWEST acceptable quality from the lowest bidding company that the US Govt will accept for a fighting gun.
    You are missing the point.
    For something to be accepted by the military it has to pass quality control inspections and tests. That requirement is not present with businesses that market directly to the civilian market, unless they choose to. The companies that are recommended are those that impose a higher standard on themselves, and it shows through performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    it sounds like someone is getting kickbacks from bcm. yeah there a great company but so is spikes
    If you are alledging that every reputable instructor, every moderator, every Indusry Professional and SME, and every high-volume shooter are shills for BCM, you need to reflect on the plausability of that accusation.

    We also recommend Noveske, KAC, Colt, and others. We let people know what we see and can prove. If you think that a company/product is equal to or better than what we recommend, please step forward with your proof. We have no interest in closing businesses down, we have no grudge, we simply recommend that which works consistently to our standards. Not everyone has our standards or breadth of data, which is why there are lots of people that are completely satisfied with their Olys/BMs/DPMSs/etc.

    Being a site sponsor does not save the company from criticism either. There are plenty of threads about EoTech, POF, Wilson, Lancer, etc in which Staff and Mods will recommend different products or criticize oferings from those companies. You want to know why? Because we aren't whores. We want to share our knowledge and experience with the community. We don't get paid. All we get is some miniscule amount of satisfaction and lots of angry PMs.

    So take your accusations and shove them up your nose.
    Last edited by Failure2Stop; 09-09-10 at 06:57. Reason: anatomical location alteration
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,795
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
    I thought that mil-spec meant the LOWEST acceptable quality from the lowest bidding company that the US Govt will accept for a fighting gun.
    Correct.

    It means the lowest bidder who can maintain the minimum QUALITY in the Technical Data Package set forth by the US Military. The TDP is the "minimum" specifications they will accept. The requirement will state "Meet or exceed" a certain specification.
    Last edited by RogerinTPA; 09-09-10 at 07:07.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

Page 7 of 16 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •