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Thread: LWRC 10.5, or LMT 10.5 upper?

  1. #21
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    And if you are set on LMT vs. LWRC, LMT is superior.
    Last edited by scottryan; 08-08-10 at 17:49.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs2to4 View Post
    I have recently been blessed with the opportunity to buy a 10.5" upper. From those with experience, which one would you pick? LWRC 10.5 or LMT 10.5 DI? I am currently running a H3 buffer and Wolff Extra Power Spring in my 14.5 SBR. Thanks for the input.

    Your just setting yourself up for failure with an aftermarket spring, 10.5" piston, and H3 buffer.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #23
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    If I was going to run a DI SBR it would have an 11.5" barrel. We issued Colt Commandos for swat and they work great.

    Having been to Colt Armorer's course and rubbing elbows with other armorers I know the snobby Colt-only/DI mentality that Scotty has. I have two 10.5" SBR's, both LWRC, the other is in 5.56 and I've had it since 2006. It has run 100% through thousands of rounds, the only malfunction was from a bad AFM magazine that was choking one of our Colts. Scotty, what makes you say one is better than the other and what personal experience do have that an LWRC 10.5" will fail?

    I'm responsible for over 100 Department owned Colt rifles (M4's and Commandos) and wouldn't hesitate recommending them. However, Colt is not the only manufacturer that makes a good product. I will put my LWRC's up against Colt anytime. As for LMT, like I said before, I have no experience with them. Hell, if I was going to buy a DI gun I would get a BCM and save myself the money.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Your just setting yourself up for failure with an aftermarket spring, 10.5" piston, and H3 buffer.
    I need to make an apology here. I didn't read this post thorough enough initially, its what I get for multi-tasking. I agree with Scotty on this, an extra power Wolff action spring and an H3 buffer is pretty strong for a properly gassed gun and would not be necessary for a 10.5 carbine of either operating system. LWRC uppers/rifles are tuned to use an H2 buffer and their action spring, somewhere between a standard M4 spring and an extra power spring. I don't know about LMT's set up but Colt Commandos and M4's use an H buffer and standard action spring.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Scotty, what makes you say one is better than the other and what personal experience do have that an LWRC 10.5" will fail?


    I'm not big 10.5" guns of any brand or operating system because of the silencer issue.

    I don't like DI 10.5" because I think they are not reliable enough. I have used Sabre and LMT DI 10.5" barrels on my main "go to" working shorty. They would not lock back on some Colt 20 round magazines with alloy followers when using M193.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  6. #26
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    I completely agree with you on the 10.5" DI guns, I had one that was finicky, but the 11.5's just seem to run with whatever you feed them. Of course, I'm sure the are those that run fine.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    I completely agree with you on the 10.5" DI guns, I had one that was finicky, but the 11.5's just seem to run with whatever you feed them. Of course, I'm sure the are those that run fine.
    Guys what 10.5" gun are we talking about is it a factory gun or something built by a hobby gunsmith? There could be lots of reasons a gun is not running properly. It could be poor equipment or poorly assembled gear.

    The OP was asking about 10.5" LMT & LWRC guns specifically.
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    Guys what 10.5" gun are we talking about is it a factory gun or something built by a hobby gunsmith?
    I have used LMT, Sabre, and Noveske.

    They were built by myself.

    I don't make mistakes during building.

    I haven't been impressed with any brand 10.5" I have ever owned.
    Last edited by scottryan; 08-09-10 at 20:56.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    I have used LMT, Sabre, and Noveske.

    They were built by myself.

    I don't make mistakes during building.

    I haven't been impressed with any brand 10.5" I have ever owned.
    What is up with the arrogance? If you built 'em and they don't work whose fault is that?

    My personal factory built LMT 10.5" SBR runs like a top. Two of our work guns have factory LMT Uppers and they run like tops too.

    I am looking forward to getting the tax stamp back on my factory BCM SBR so I can slap the BCM 11.5" Upper on it for a trip to the range.

    I do not run a supressor.
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    What is up with the arrogance? If you built 'em and they don't work whose fault is that?

    Not mine.

    I have a used Colt MK18 barrel that works fine.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Not mine.

    I have a used Colt MK18 barrel that works fine.
    Scottryan I don't mean to seem rude, but when asked about LMT's superiority over LWRCi you answered that you don't like 10.5'' DI rifles.

    Please elaborate on the failures you see on the LWRCi platform.

    Having never owned a 10.5'' gun I am actually curious, but I've owned a 12.7'' LWRCi gun, and I never had a stoppage that I could attribute to the gun, or lack of maintenance on the gun.
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  12. #32
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    I own a 10.5" LWRC with the newer 1 piece carrier. I've shot about 500 rounds thru it so far using brass reloads & wolf. I have yet to clean it (other than before first trip to range), and have zero issues. I put the H3 buffer & spring in my stock that came w/ the upper.
    I have not shot any other 10.5, so I can't helpya there. I just know I have to clean my DI carbine (Daniel Defense) every 200-300 rounds using the same ammo mix above before I start getting feeding or cycling issues.
    YMMV.
    Last edited by jdub75; 08-11-10 at 19:21.

  13. #33
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    I have an early 10.5 inch LMT that I've run almost exclusively on fullauto with a conservative guestimate of about 5k rounds. Much of this has been suppressed. The only failures I've experienced are several failures to feed, which occurred after about 300 rounds of suppressed fullauto fire. The action was absolutely filthy, had not been re-lubed and the bolt carrier was just dragging through all this filth. Applying some lube immediately solved the problem. In my estimation, these FTFs were due to loss of bolt velocity on the return stroke due to bolt carrier drag in the setting of excessive fouling/debris within the upper receiver and on the bolt group. When shooting unsuppressed, I have never had a failure in this upper.

    I have a Noveske N4 hammer forged 10.5 inch upper that I have yet to shoot. It is waiting for me to install a Daniel Defense Mk18 RIS-2 rail.

    Just out of curiosity, have you considered buying a BCM upper with hammer forged barrel? This would be my preference at this point, however I have no experience with their short barrels. Knowing BCM, I would venture to say that they work as advertised. They also offer uppers with 11.5 and 12.5 inch, as well as in lightweight configuration.
    Last edited by JoshNC; 08-11-10 at 21:43.

  14. #34
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    I have an LMT 10.5" that has been 100% reliable, the most rounds through it were a couple of thousand with out cleaning and about 1,500 at a Magpul Dynamics class without adding more than 3 drops of oil to the BCG.

    It is very accurate and has turned out true sub MOA groups at 100 yards.

    If I was buying another shorty I would buy another LMT or a Bravo Company.

    Cameron

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    Thank you to all who chimed in on this. I was able to get a brand new M6A2 upper for under $1200. I couldn't be happier with it. With the H3 buffer and Wolff Extra Power buffer spring, it lobs brass out to about 3' away at 3 o'clock. The recoil is minimal with this setup, including the BattleComp. Thanks again to everybody's advice.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #36
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    Great looking rifle.
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post

    Please elaborate on the failures you see on the LWRCi platform.

    Well I don't like LWRC's stupid three piece top rail that is trying to mimic a monolith but is actually 3 pieces.

    LMT is true monolith and you can have both DI and piston. I don't see why you would buy a LWRC.

    It is a wash between which piston system is more "proven" as none of them are.

    I don't see why this is even up for debate.

    Between the two LMT is far superior.
    Last edited by scottryan; 08-12-10 at 17:54.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  18. #38
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    Wow, your right, what a failure.... I like how you have to throw in how the rail is "stupid".

    You still haven't been able to come up with your personal experience for an LWRC (or LMT piston) failing. And LWRC has been tested, rigorously, DEA for example. Pat Rogers likes them and rates them among Colt, Noveske, and BCM for his company's uses. I rely on mine every day at work as an LEO. As for the 3 piece rail I like being able to access the piston for maintenance, though I only do so every 1000 rounds or so. LWRC recomends every 5000 if the user is inclined but says it isn't necessary. Unless you are hanging a metric ton of shit on your gun the monolithic rail is nice but not necessary....well at least I haven't found it so for my uses. I guess if your hanging an optic that far forward its nice to not have a rail that can be moved. But in the end it doesn't matter, some people like the monolithic rail, some don't, neither opinion is wrong.

    I find it ironic that this kind of limited thinking and non-acceptance of new ideas and technology is of the same variety as those that hated the M16 when it replaced the M14.
    Last edited by Boomer; 08-13-10 at 05:40.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Wow, your right, what a failure.... I like how you have to throw in how the rail is "stupid".

    You still haven't been able to come up with your personal experience for an LWRC (or LMT piston) failing. And LWRC has been tested, rigorously, DEA for example. Pat Rogers likes them and rates them among Colt, Noveske, and BCM for his company's uses. I rely on mine every day at work as an LEO. As for the 3 piece rail I like being able to access the piston for maintenance, though I only do so every 1000 rounds or so. LWRC recomends every 5000 if the user is inclined but says it isn't necessary. Unless you are hanging a metric ton of shit on your gun the monolithic rail is nice but not necessary....well at least I haven't found it so for my uses. I guess if your hanging an optic that far forward its nice to not have a rail that can be moved. But in the end it doesn't matter, some people like the monolithic rail, some don't, neither opinion is wrong.

    I find it ironic that this kind of limited thinking and non-acceptance of new ideas and technology is of the same variety as those that hated the M16 when it replaced the M14.

    Did you not read what I said?

    I said it is a wash on either piston system. I'm not doubting the reliability of either.

    So then it boils down to the rail.

    If I am going to drop the money on this stuff, I willl get a monolith, not a fake monolith.
    Last edited by scottryan; 08-13-10 at 16:49.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Well I don't like LWRC's stupid three piece top rail that is trying to mimic a monolith but is actually 3 pieces.

    LMT is true monolith and you can have both DI and piston. I don't see why you would buy a LWRC.

    It is a wash between which piston system is more "proven" as none of them are.

    I don't see why this is even up for debate.

    Between the two LMT is far superior.
    At least your complaint is a valid one.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Personally I like the LWRCi system better, I don't care for monolithic platforms, and like that if some part of the rail system is damaged I can buy that one piece, and maintain the piston without taking off the whole system.

    I also love gas block mounted front sights, and adjustable gas blocks, and the LWRCi system has both.
    Quote Originally Posted by montanadave View Post
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    We miss you, AC.

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