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Thread: XCR-M 308

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    Thankfully, I caught your post before you went back and edited it

    Care to explain why you say you only shot 250 rounds when on 09-18-2009, 03:16 AM you said the following



    There is a big difference between 1.5 and 3.5 years (only a year has passed), and even a bigger difference between 250 and 2000...

    So which is it? What is the truth and what is the lie?
    All truth, no lies. But nice try.

    My original post intended to say something to the effect of 250 rounds without a single malfunction. I've actually put a little over 2K, but I had a couple of misfeeds that were probably mag or break-in related during the first 500-1000 round. Thus, I settled on the more fair and descriptive statement that I've put 2K without major problems since it runs fine now. Please note that the correction was made within 15 min of proof reading.

    I originally ran the rifle with the YH irons for the first year, but didn't shoot it that much. I bought it in early Winter 2007. I added the CompM4 when they first came out in late 2007 or early 2008 and the 3X magnifier a short time later. You might note that I invested in these items right around the time that Alex promised the SCAR stock et al.

    My argument is not with the performance or design so I have no reason to lie. Instead, it's the poor support that keeps me from trusting the system. Do you disagree?
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-16-10 at 13:56.

  2. #22
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    BTW, the CompM4 and 3x mag are now sitting on a SCAR. Another system that has really dazzled me with a plethora of spare parts and support. Eventually, I'll learn my lesson...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesmith View Post
    Do you disagree?
    Nope. My SCAR is gone for that very reason.
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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  4. #24
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    I've maintained that Alex is a brilliant designer. It's his execution when it comes to supporting older projects that leaves much to be desired.

    Thus, I'm going focus on updating my other .308 platforms rather than jump head first into the XCR-M. If he is able to bring a reliable package to the market and a steady supply of parts for 4-5 years, I may bite. Until then, no friggen way.
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-16-10 at 03:53.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesmith View Post
    I've maintained that Alex is a brilliant designer. It's his execution when it comes to supporting older projects that leaves much to be desired.

    Thus, I'm going focus on updating my other .308 platforms rather than jump head first into the XCR-M. If he is able to bring a reliable package to the market and a steady supply of parts for 4-5 years, I may bite. Until then, no friggen way.
    I'm sitting the whole affair out. I'll finish off some AR15 uppers and builds, then I am taking a break from big gun purchases.

    If I were getting a .308 it would be an M1A scout.
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
    What Happened to the American dream? It came true. You're looking at it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kal View Post
    The SBR is photoshopped by VB using the original picture.


    Just for informations sake.
    I figured it was photoshop.

    Before anyone gets feelings hurt, my comment on the "big AK" is applicable whether it's a HK 51, DSA OSW, or one of these Robarms guns with a 11" barrel.
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    I figured it was photoshop.

    Before anyone gets feelings hurt, my comment on the "big AK" is applicable whether it's a HK 51, DSA OSW, or one of these Robarms guns with a 11" barrel.

    Ive never understood the appeal, or the point, of .308 carbines with foot long barrels on them

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloydkristmas View Post
    Ive never understood the appeal, or the point, of .308 carbines with foot long barrels on them
    You get an AK-47 and a flamethrower with every pull of the tigger as seen in the movie Aliens. Good times, good times....

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloydkristmas View Post
    Ive never understood the appeal, or the point, of .308 carbines with foot long barrels on them
    Needing a handy carbine for short range use with better barrier penetration than 5.56, and being limited to 5.56 or 7.62x51 ammo.

    For other than the above 6.8 is a far better choice for a foot of barrel, plus it comes in a smaller and lighter gun.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Needing a handy carbine for short range use with better barrier penetration than 5.56, and being limited to 5.56 or 7.62x51 ammo.

    For other than the above 6.8 is a far better choice for a foot of barrel, plus it comes in a smaller and lighter gun.
    Exactamundo

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    For other than the above 6.8 is a far better choice for a foot of barrel, plus it comes in a smaller and lighter gun.
    If you can float the ammo cost. Most can't.
    "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left." -Ecclesiastes 10:2

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
    If you can float the ammo cost. Most can't.
    I don't buy the argument. This is a serious use carbine. $1 round 6.8 vs $.50 for 7.62 is true but mags and gear and everything else you have to purchase that is 7.62 specific adds up too.

    Chris

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCK View Post
    I don't buy the argument. This is a serious use carbine. $1 round 6.8 vs $.50 for 7.62 is true but mags and gear and everything else you have to purchase that is 7.62 specific adds up too.

    Chris
    You can get steel cased 7.62 for less than $0.30 a shot. Brass cased for less than $0.50. The cheapest 6.8 I've seen is about $85 a shot. The best 7.62 magazines are PMAGs which are less than $20. In order to get 6.8 magazines that are of equal quality you'd have to go with PRI magazines which are just under $40.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that the 6.8 is the ideal assault rifle cartridge, but it just isn't economical viable for most people when 5.56 or other alternatives are so much cheaper and more developed.
    Last edited by Entropy; 08-16-10 at 22:48.
    "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left." -Ecclesiastes 10:2

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  14. #34
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    Thread drift......let's get back on track.
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  15. #35
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    price wise, the number of $2495 has been bandied about

    Frankly I respect that the company has asked the community what they want for a barrel length option, and what caliber conversions they would like to see.

    18.6" seems to be the most popular request, followed by the 16" and 20" versions. Personally I think they will release two barrel lengths. I've been told that the longer barrels need a differnt gas block position than the shorter ones, so I'll bet we see one in a 20" and one in a 16". It appears that the only option up front will be a heavy barrel, but you never know.

    as to caliber conversions it looks like 260 and 243 are the most popular, although personally I've never actually seen any .260 ammo for sale anywhere. I expect folks will figure that out after they buy the conversion kit tho.

    the new stock is planned for release as well. I'd also expect to see the ambi mag release on the -M too.

    this is all just my SWAG based on several conversations with Alex in the past as well as bits and pieces of intel gathered recently from various sources that I trust to be accurate.

    VB is bound by a non Disclosure Agreement, so he cant say much to confirm anything, I am not bound by that but dont have nearly the access either.

    All of this is of course subject to the whims of the supply and production system and the designer, so it could change tomorrow.
    Last edited by Jack-O; 08-17-10 at 00:46.
    My capacity for self deception is exceeded only by yours.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O View Post

    All of this is of course subject to the whims of the supply and production system and the designer, so it could change tomorrow.
    Jack-O,
    As we've discussed on other forums, I'm a little skeptical that the XCR-M will be ready for prime time when it is released. For the benefit of those not following TOS, there are several reasons for the skepticism. First, we've heard similar claims as far back as 3 years ago. Also, there are no pictures of production models. Finally, my concern about the solicitation of barrel lengths is based on the notion that the piston system will have to differ depending on barrel length. This implies that the consumers will beta-test the early production models if the weapon is released in a couple of months.

    Also, I'd much rather see RobArms improve their service and support for existing platforms rather that add a whole new system to support.

    Anyway, I'm willing to eat some crow if there is a successful release of the XCR-M with reliable support and service in a couple of months.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesmith View Post
    Finally, my concern about the solicitation of barrel lengths is based on the notion that the piston system will have to differ depending on barrel length.
    Robarm did the same thing with the -L way back, and the piston design is the same for the 18", 16", 14.5", 12" and 11"

    The piston design does change for the Mini and Micro/Pistol.
    Last edited by variablebinary; 08-17-10 at 04:30.
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  18. #38
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    Somehow I don't see this showing up any time soon. The "improved stock" has been talked about since I first found about the XCR (about 2 years ago). I'm with other folks, I think they should make sure they can support the existing product line before jumping into a new pool and trying to swim. Just my 2 cents.
    "Buy once, cry once. Or not. Many of you will undoubtedly be zombies one day. I'd prefer if you were zombies with sub-par gear."

  19. #39
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    Rated21R: And what makes you think they cannot support the existing product line? I have never had a problem getting spare parts or any upgrades I wanted to make. That includes the new designed gas plug when it came out, the new designed trigger when it came out, new design bolt stop and ambi-safety. In fact I have been able to get anything I have ordered (short of a new rifle) in a week or so. There was a recall on "some" (low serial numbers) firing pin's and bolts. They sent me new ones without haveing to send them my old ones first.

    Just my experience with RA so far during the past 6 years,
    MadDog (yes, that is how long I have had my XCR)

  20. #40
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    Some comments apparently from Alex, under the screen name "kolob".

    OK. Some Comments.

    We had a design for this rifle over 6 years ago. However, we had to completely redesign and re-test all the major parts - upper, lower, bolt, barrel, extension, carrier, operating rod, etc. We could not use our design from years ago because it was done wrong and would not have worked. Anyone who think that this is just a "scale up" knows very little about firearms design.

    The picture that was posted gives you the general idea but you are all trying guess too much. The upper receiver of the production units will be longer. It is not known yet whether or not the gas system will be completely covered by upper receiver. The upper receiver has 1913 rails that are not grooved down the middle. (We can groove them if you want us to for an additional charge).

    The barrel is not stainless. It's just a test unit and we were just too lazy to phosphate finish the barrel. The chrome lined 18.6" barrel shoots under .75" and under repeatedly. It's 1/10 shooting 168 gr stuff. We'll probably offer both 1/10 and 1/12.

    The controls are completely ambidextrous except the charging handle. If the rifle were turned over, it looks exactly like you think it would. No there is not and there will never be a folding charging handle. The hole purpose of the charging handle is so you can get to it quickly.

    The design of the XCR-M is actually more refined than the XCR-L. Better fit and finish. We incorporated all we learned from five years of making the the XCR-L into the XCR-M. THERE WILL BE NO UPGRADES OR CHANGES TO THIS DESIGN. We do plan to offer .260 and .243 Remington calibers shortly after we begin selling the .30

    It will have a variety of options for stocks including our new do it all stock. The stock is not going to be shown until we're ready to do so (which shouldn't be too much longer). I don't want copycats like Fagpul and Femington to see it just yet. I will say that the stock is almost all metal and there's only plastic for the butt pad and adjustable cheek rest.

    The price is going to be about $2500 retail including the new stock. I guaranty it will be worth it.

    It does have a lot of parts commonality with the XCR-L. There's only about 25 parts that are different from the XCR-L but they're big parts. The M uses all the same trigger parts, bolt hold open, etc

    We may also make our own sights for this rifle. Feel free to give us suggestions on the rifle or sight. Email us at tech@robarm.com.

    We'll post some pics of the finalized rifle with the new stock shortly.
    Just a couple more comments:

    VB and Aziator have signed NDA agreements. That's the only way they have gotten sneak peeks at stuff. We let them have sneak peaks so they can comment on our stuff without us loosing the right to receive patents etc. I wish I could show you all the stuff as soon as I think of it and get your opinion before wasting hundreds of thousands or millions of development dollars.

    Regarding service, we miss Terra. She was not fired but needed a change. We fired all the remaining service and assembly staff and rehired some young vibrant guys who care about the quality of the work they're doing. The goal is to never ship a less than perfect firearm. We have have made radical changes in our assembly and service department that will ensure that we don't miss anything. It may still happen but very infrequently. The design of the XCR is good. When the parts are made right, the rifle is AK reliable or very close to it.

    All rifles and parts leaving the factory right now have to go through two levels of scrutiny in an effort to make sure each rifle works perfectly. It takes a little longer but will result in a much better customer experience.
    By the end of the month, we should be able to turn around service problems in less than a week provided we are not missing a certain barrel in a certain configuration. It takes a couple weeks for us to turn around barrels.

    Regarding the Color of the XCR-M, we will offer Black, OD Green, FDE, and perhaps some other colors.
    http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,8394.0/all.html

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