M855A1 presentation lists improvements over M855

[KevinB]

Your aware that the BCD on the ACOG is not compatible with M855A1 either?

77gr Mk262, SOST, or M855A1 have different trajectories than M855, so the whole BCD argument is a red herring.

[a0cake]

The difference in trajectory between green tip and A1 comes down to a couple of inches based on the charts in the powerpoint. Not exactly the same, sure, but the BDC on the ACOG's will still be useable, and still fulfill their stated purpose of "increasing hit probability." You're talking about two 62 grain rounds at similar velocities. At extended ranges, the difference in trajectory is likely within the aggregate accuracy potential of the ammo / rifle / shooter combo. But, the BDC will still assist in "increasing hit probability" as it was designed to do. I don't have the time to sit here and look at ballistic tables right now, but I don't think the 77 gr rounds, for example, would be at all close to the BDC at range.

[Magic_Salad0892]

One last point to consider. The big Army almost had to stick with a 62 grain round. Almost every infantryman, cook, mechanic, saxaphone player, you name it.....has an ACOG with a BDC calibrated for a 62 grain round on their issued rifle. I'm tracking that the Mk318 Mod0 SOST is 62 grains and that the trajectory is reasonably close to that of the M855. That definitely would have been a good choice to replace the M855. But anyway, if the Army had chosen a 70+ grain round as many advocate, what would be come of all those shiny, new, expensive ass Trijicons? Just something to think about, and maybe a clue as to why another 62 grain round was chosen. Just too bad it wasn't the SOST.

Easy solution:

Army adopts 77 gr Mk 262 as standard round.

Old ACOGs go to surplus to offset the costs for the purchase of new ACOGs.

Buy new ACOGs calibrated for 7.62x51mm NATO load.

Give DMRs NF/USO/S&B scopes. Boom. All M4(A1s, and all) guns are retrofitted, and work at longer range.

Trajectory is almost the same.

Profit.

SOST would have been gnarly, but that's too simple, huh?

[KevinB]

Army is going Common Squad Optic (1-6 or 1-8x variable)for everyone in the next few years, so the whole ACOG issue is irrelevant in the Grand Scheme.

[JSantoro]

Army adopts 77 gr Mk 262 as standard round.

Buying completely into a fragile match round vice something like the available possibilities is a singularly bad idea. It did the job it was supposed to to in the niche that made sense, and it's now time to get real. Accuracy is certainly nice, but it's not the be-all/end-all, and that's not enough to make Mk262 the GP go-to for any reason.

Furthermore, given that the Army had to cough up a gigantic $$$ settlement to the folks they stole the M855A1 design from, what one would or would not call "criminal" is equally irrelevant. The entire enterprise is the result of theft, and netted a round without substantive performance improvement, with greater per-round cost, oh, and the added expense of $40 million because of ballistic plagiarism.

All of the middle and senior managers involved should be strapped to posts, naked, and scourged with nettle bushes. If the 855A1 apologists weren't simply benighted fools, they'd belong there, too, for encouraging the douches to repeat their behavior with stories of false success.

[R Moran]

Buying completely into a fragile match round vice something like the available possibilities is a singularly bad idea. It did the job it was supposed to to in the niche that made sense, and it's now time to get real. Accuracy is certainly nice, but it's not the be-all/end-all, and that's not enough to make Mk262 the GP go-to for any reason.

Furthermore, given that the Army had to cough up a gigantic $$$ settlement to the folks they stole the M855A1 design from, what one would or would not call "criminal" is equally irrelevant. The entire enterprise is the result of theft, and netted a round without substantive performance improvement, with greater per-round cost, oh, and the added expense of $40 million because of ballistic plagiarism.

All of the middle and senior managers involved should be strapped to posts, naked, and scourged with nettle bushes. If the 855A1 apologists weren't simply benighted fools, they'd belong there, too, for encouraging the douches to repeat their behavior with stories of false success.

J,
Got any particulars on that, that you can share, or send me a PM. Just curious is all.
A buddy of mine over a LF, you know him, says he's spoke too a guy or two, that have used the A1 stuff, says it works well.

I'm no ballistics guy, but we could probably just issue 55 or 62grn plain Jane ball, and lots of it, and a lot more training, be fine.

Bob

[Magic_Salad0892]

Buying completely into a fragile match round vice something like the available possibilities is a singularly bad idea. It did the job it was supposed to to in the niche that made sense, and it's now time to get real. Accuracy is certainly nice, but it's not the be-all/end-all, and that's not enough to make Mk262 the GP go-to for any reason.

Mk. 262 is the only 70+ grain projectile the US Military uses, to the best of my knowledge. That's the only reason I used it.

For a general purpose round Mk. 318 SOST is almost ideal.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Army is going Common Squad Optic (1-6 or 1-8x variable)for everyone in the next few years, so the whole ACOG issue is irrelevant in the Grand Scheme.

That's awesome. Are they going to hold a trial for it?

[R Moran]

Mk. 262 is the only 70+ grain projectile the US Military uses, to the best of my knowledge.

Not exactly.

Bob

[Turnkey11]

That's awesome. Are they going to hold a trial for it?

They will, but Leupolds new $7k wonder already won.