Pat Rogers 3 day Operators course

**rob_s** · 07-02-07, 09:47

Just a side note, and I believe it's covered in Pat's "coming to class", but make sure you're not only familiar with your rifle, but also your load bearing gear and your handgun, and how all three things work together.

I can't tell you how many times I see guys show up to our matches, or classes I've attended, with chest-rigs that interfere with their handgun draw stroke, rifle slings that interfere with extracting mags from their LBE, etc., etc.

My suggestion is to keep your gear as you keep your rifle; have enough stuff to get the job done but not so much stuff as to hinder you. It's a very fine line.

Pat's class was, for me, a somewhat high volume of fire class, and I would always make sure that you have a way to carry at least 3 rifle mags and one in the gun. I ran an Eagle FB chest rig that held three rifle mags and I only went dry once in three days.

**RD62** · 07-02-07, 10:08

Thanks for the tips guys. I've read the article on Pat's site and the above link from the class veteran.

I'm looking into gear selection now. As I am no longer with the department, and am not military, I'm thinking of gearing my selection more towards what I might need in a more defensive type situation. I'm looking at an Eagle M4 Patrol Bandoleer (4 M4 mags and 2 pistol mags) but am trying to figure out if it'll work right with my 1911 mags (i've got an email in to Eagle). And maybe an Eagle Duty Evidence pouch for a dump pouch.

I'm also looking for a good IWB kydex 1911 holster. I have a Sidearmor that I got for off-duty carry of my issue G22, but don't like the design of the newer Sidearmor offerings. I'm looking at a Comp-Tac C-T.A.C. I prefer to train as I fight, so I'd like to have something appropriate for my situation. Any gear suggestions are appreciated.

-RD62

**Pat_Rogers** · 07-02-07, 11:25

Abnk- I'm looking forward to it also

However, Mr Rogers was my Dad- my name is Pat...

The difference between the 25/ 50 yd zero is appx 1.5"
If you are on paper at 50 we can move you with little grief.

Wayne my Big Brother- Bite me! But, thanks for the kind words.

Rob- igh volume of fire...yeah, that's it.
Re gear integration. I believe i have that story in the Sept SWAT magazine.

RD62- the Eagle patrol bandoleer is nice for carrying mission essential gear, and while some have used it during class it may not be optimal. If you decide to use it, no sweat.
However, a chest rig may make life easier for you.
Thanks to Todd Kennedy at Eagle and Stephen at ATS, i have some chest rigs available for use by students.
I also have several CSM Dump Pouches available. We don't want to see guys suffer because of inefficient gear.
However, the No Souvenir rule is in effect.
You have plenty of time to get gear sorted out- if necessary we have some 6004, G Code SOC and other kydex available.

**abnk** · 07-02-07, 12:11

Pat,

Thank you for chiming in and please allow me to apologize in advance for any "Sir"s that may slip out during the course.

**RD62** · 07-02-07, 12:28

Pat,

Thanks again for the info. I need to pick up a new holster for my 1911 anyway. I'm obviously new to the whole M4 gear, so thanks for the comments concerning my selections. Do you suggest any specific pieces to look at that would fit my needs? I don't have the same needs as some of the LE/Mil guys. I'm just wanting a practical kit that will work in class and after, without a lot of things I don't need, both for KISS and weight. And hopefully without breaking the bank.

My wife is gonna freak when this stuff starts rollin in. If you'll have a cot at class, I may need to stay the night cause she might not let me back in the house!

-RD62

**rob_s** · 07-02-07, 12:34

Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers

Rob- igh volume of fire...yeah, that's it.

I mean this in comparison to, say, Randy's Carbine 101 where I think we fired something in the neighborhood of 700 rounds as compared to your class where some people fired nearly double that. I got through Randy's class with a pair of single mag pouches on my belt and one in the gun, and rarely went to my second belt mag, but in your class I often found myself at the end of a drill with just a few rounds left in the mag in the gun and the rest of the mags in my dump pouch.

Which isn't to say that one is better than the other, just that people should be prepared for, and know what, they are getting into.

**NCPatrolAR** · 07-02-07, 12:48

Originally Posted by RD62

I'm looking into gear selection now. As I am no longer with the department, and am not military, I'm thinking of gearing my selection more towards what I might need in a more defensive type situation. I'm looking at an Eagle M4 Patrol Bandoleer (4 M4 mags and 2 pistol mags) but am trying to figure out if it'll work right with my 1911 mags (i've got an email in to Eagle). And maybe an Eagle Duty Evidence pouch for a dump pouch.

The second time I did tactical Response's Tactical Rifle course, now called Fighting Rifle, I used the Eagle Patrol Bandoler. That course is fiarly high round count with lots of mag changes for those unaware. I didnt have aproblem with the bando. as long as I wasnt trying to stuff partial mags back into the pouch. When I would attempt this, the velcro would roll back into the pouch and cause the mag to hang up. Other than that, there weren't any issues with it. While I did keep a G2 and a spare Glock mag in the mag pouches, I used dedicated belt pouches for my pistol mags. In reagrds to your 1911 mags, you should be able to get 2 mags per mag pouch on it.

I'm also looking for a good IWB kydex 1911 holster. I have a Sidearmor that I got for off-duty carry of my issue G22, but don't like the design of the newer Sidearmor offerings. I'm looking at a Comp-Tac C-T.A.C. I prefer to train as I fight, so I'd like to have something appropriate for my situation. Any gear suggestions are appreciated.

-RD62

CTACs are my favorite IWB holster bar-none.

**RD62** · 07-02-07, 14:50

Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR

In reagrds to your 1911 mags, you should be able to get 2 mags per mag pouch on it.

Have you tried the single stack mags in the bandoleer? Any issues with retention after one is removed?

After Pat's advice, I wonder if I shouldn't just go with an Eagle Universal Tactical Chest Rig and forgo a belt mounted pistol holster for the class.

-RD62