Need Opinions on Budget Rifle Build

[Jellybean]

Well, as the title says, I'd like you guys' opinion on building a rifle as cheaply as possible. Here's what's going down:
My Dad expressed an interest in a aquiring an AR when I put mine up for sale. However, he doesn't understand why I would want a different (better) rifle in the first place- he's one of those folks who sees a $1000+ (read:quality) AR and a $XXX (sub-par) AR, and thinks they're both equal. I've tried to explain why certain rifles are better, but he's still more interested in the price tag. Honestly, I don't blame him... But this puts me in a spot where I can't just point him at a good brand and be finished with it. If he's interested in getting a rifle, I'd like him to get one that meets his price, and still retains some sort of quality. Unfortunately, I am no AR guru, so I need some input from those that know more than me. I read most of the other posts pertaining to this, (and even a rather lengthy one on "KISS" rifles), but they didn't really answer the question accurately enough.
So there's the problem. Now solve for x...

I did some preliminary research/pricing- here's what I came up with so far:

Rifle
BCM Standard 16" Mid. Upper (with BCG/CH)-$520
Spikes' Tactical Lower (complete)-$250
Total-$770

Accessories
Magpul MOE Handguard-$34
Magpul MOE Stock-$60
Magpul MBUS-$60
Sling- BFG Victory/Boonie Packer-$20-38
Total-$174-192

Extras
RDS- Vortex Strikefire-$179
Light-Surefire G2/6P-$60-70 (others?)
Mounts-Light/Optic/Sling-$ ? (opinions?)
Mags- Pmags-$(as needed)
Total-$240+
Grand Total(complete)-$1,184-1,202+

Still too expensive....
Barring any special deals I find, this is still way to high- I want your bottom dollar here.

*Notes*
-Tasks for this rifle are mainly going to be plinking. However, I would like to retain as much quality as possible. Especially if he decides he wants to come to a class with me, or if the zombie hordes arise... I just want him to get a good, long lasting, trouble free product.
-I stated this as a build, because it will be more price friendly for him to piece it together instead of him seeing one huge lump sum and getting freaked. I'd also like to keep it as complete/modular as possible. However, if there is a complete rifle in the right price range, feel free to point it out.
-I picked a middy upper, but if he had to use a carbine I don't think it would make much difference. But we're both a little ape-armed, so I would prefer it, if only to help with grip. And I really don't see much price difference anyway, so for the extra advantages why not?
-I picked the MOE handguard, as it seems to be well liked, the right price, and he can add individual rail sections at very low cost for accessories. I could always just do standard handguards, but for very little extra this will give him more options in the future.
-How do I convince him it's a good idea to have an RDS and light?

Thanks for reading this ultra-long post.

[LittleBucky]

I've got a spikes stripped lower and a del-ton upp kit. The "kit" comes with everything to finish the gun (LPK, Stock, Buffer asbly) all for like $465 unless you want the M4 cut w/ M4 feed ramps then it's $500. But you have to remember this includes a LPK I just put it together on Wednesday and I love it. Extremely accurate and I shoot a Colt 6290 at work...

Del-ton offers a discount for members at ar-15.com, hope I don't get in trouble for posting that here. Anyway been real happy with it and spikes makes a pretty cool looking lower, with the fire selector being very MP5-esque. I decided to go with the 'budget' model as this is my first build.

good luck!

[Col_Crocs]

Exactly what is his price? The base gun looks gtg, the MOE handguard is great. I personally like it from an ergonomics standpoint. BTW, I dont think the midlength MOE is out yet.
IMHO, just keep it KISS for now. Getting a cheap RDS will only strengthen his hesitance towards them when it breaks down on him. Just get him Pmags and take him out shooting. He'll later realize the advantages of having one and by then would probably have an idea what type he wants. Pretty much the same idea goes for the light or atleast where it's going to be mounted.
My dad is the exact same way, except he puts cheap crap on his guns thinking theyre all the same.

[pennzoil]

If he doesn't mind small scratches I'd recommend looking at a BCM blemish lower from Grant. It costs the same and the one I got had a tiny scratch but I'm not sure if they are all that way. The trigger had tiny bit of creep at first but now after shooting it a bit feels good with no creep.

Fast shipping and Grant even put a magpul ASAP on/staked that I bought from him for free. May even want to email Grant for the whole rifle.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=LWR-BCM

On the lower drop down select blemishfor the discount.

[Failure2Stop]

I would keep the ancilliarys to a minimum until he decides he wants/needs it.

1- I would just stick with irons/MBUS.
2- No big need to drop $ on the MOE stock since the lower comes with a carbine stock.
3- No huge need for a sling yet.
4- Keep the mags to a minimum: 2 or 3 will probably be more than enough, and if not, you can just let him borrow some of yours.

Have you checked the EE?
I constantly forget to, but there are some great deals down there from guys we all know. Getting second-hand parts/assemblies with a few hundred to 1k rounds cuts a decent amount from the initial purchase and doesn't really do anything to life or resale value.

What do you consider to be the limit for the gun alone, or total package? Might help us trim some frosting.

I bring this back to need though. Despite the belief that all M4rumites are shills for certain companies, I think that Spike has a good price-point with his carbine and middie for users like your Dad. At least it has a 5.56 chamber (or close enough) and a 1:7 twist. It's not what I would prefer, but it doesn't sound like your Dad is me.

FWIW, my Dad is the same way. It's ironic because he only buys high-quality proven tools and instilled that appreciation of quality in me ever since I could comprehend the subject, but when it comes to guns and knives he's a bit weird. Every now and then I can calm him down by explaining that 10 $20 POS knives cost more than 1 $150 blade that will last him a lifetime or be replaced with no questions asked. Needless to say, our gun cabinets look drastically different.

[crusader377]

I'm in a similiar situation and this is what I'm building and IMO it is a great value for the money.

Lower spikes tactical Gen 1, $69, purchased from aim surplus

LPK: Charles Daly LPK, successful bid on gunbroker for $49

Magpul MOE stock, mil-spec receiver extension, H buffer, magpul grip, and magpul MOE handguard: $110 for DSG arms.

Total lower price: $228

Upper is too be determined but most likely buy a BCM upper for around $520 or a 14.5 inch light carbine with extended A2 hinder for $565.

Total price for rifle minus BUIS: $748 to 793
Remember this rifle will have a magpul handguards, MOE stock, and MOE grip.

A lower cost option would be to swap the BCM upper for a spikes upper on aimsurplus for $480. Since the spikes upper has the H2 buffer, you would not need to upgrade to an H buffer from the DSG arms kit and would pay only $99 for the MOE stock, receiver extension, MOE handguards and grip.

This would drive your price down to around $700 and you would still have a very good rifle.

Hope that helps.

[fdxpilot]

3 comments

1. If you are planning on a midlength upper, the middie MOE handguard is not available yet. I have been waiting months for one.

2. The Strikefire is a good budget Red Dot, but your price is too high. It is almost universally available for $149

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CDAQ8wIwAg#

3. While I like the MOE stock and have it on one of my rifles, if on a budget, I would just stick with the M4 style stock included with the lower.

[Jellybean]

Thanks, all- Sorry I didn't get on here sooner- let me try and answer some of the issues here:

If he doesn't mind small scratches I'd recommend looking at a BCM blemish lower from Grant. It costs the same and the one I got had a tiny scratch but I'm not sure if they are all that way.....
On the lower drop down select blemishfor the discount.

Yes, I saw the thread about that a while back. The option did run through my mind, I just hadn't checked it out yet.

I would keep the ancilliarys to a minimum until he decides he wants/needs it.

1- I would just stick with irons/MBUS.
2- No big need to drop $ on the MOE stock since the lower comes with a carbine stock.
3- No huge need for a sling yet.
4- Keep the mags to a minimum: 2 or 3 will probably be more than enough, and if not, you can just let him borrow some of yours.

1)Yes- after thinking this over during the weekend I'll probably drop the RDS from the list for now.
2)Well,the reason I put it on the list is because on the rifle I got (currently selling) the standard stock was quite wiggly. But if the standard is ok on whatever lower he ends up with, than I agree there's no immediate need for it.
3)Well, I agree 50%- Probably not an immediate need. However, for the small extra cost it seems more useful than not. There were many days I wished for a sling, if only to get my hands free while carrying other things.
4)Planning on it- that's why I left them to "as needed", just so I wouldn't forget to add them into the overall cost.

Have you checked the EE?
I constantly forget to, but there are some great deals down there from guys we all know. Getting second-hand parts/assemblies with a few hundred to 1k rounds cuts a decent amount from the initial purchase and doesn't really do anything to life or resale value.

What do you consider to be the limit for the gun alone, or total package? Might help us trim some frosting.

Not yet- definately an option in consideration though.

I know you guys have asked for a price point. Honestly, I can't say- he hasn't given me one yet. And believe me, I have tried to get an answer....
That's why for now, I just want to go as low cost as possible. As a wild guess, I would say as far under $800 as possible without catastrophic loss of quality...

I bring this back to need though. Despite the belief that all M4rumites are shills for certain companies, I think that Spike has a good price-point with his carbine and middie for users like your Dad. At least it has a 5.56 chamber (or close enough) and a 1:7 twist. It's not what I would prefer, but it doesn't sound like your Dad is me.

Thanks- although it's not like they do so without good reason. One that's going to melt my own credit card.
Actually, Spikes' Lower @$250 + Midlength upper @ $480 (thanks Crusader377)makes for a decent price...

FWIW, my Dad is the same way. It's ironic because he only buys high-quality proven tools and instilled that appreciation of quality in me ever since I could comprehend the subject, but when it comes to guns and knives he's a bit weird. Every now and then I can calm him down by explaining that 10 $20 POS knives cost more than 1 $150 blade that will last him a lifetime or be replaced with no questions asked. Needless to say, our gun cabinets look drastically different.

Are they related??
Your dad wouldn't happen to be Polish, would he....?

fdxpilot:
1. If you are planning on a midlength upper, the middie MOE handguard is not available yet. I have been waiting months for one.

2. The Strikefire is a good budget Red Dot, but your price is too high. It is almost universally available for $149

1)Really? I didn't know that- I saw it listed on Bravo Company's page, and figured they were just out of stock. (http://="http://www.bravocompanyusa....418%20blk.htm")
2)Yes, I know- some of my prices were quoted straight from manufacturer's sites, and aren't 100% accurate.

Keep the ideas coming!

[pilotguyo540]

I would love to second the approval for the equipment exchange. You may not get exactly what you want when you want it, but with a little patience you can walk away with some damn nice deals. I bought a bcm middy upper for real cheap (thanks F2S!). I also picked up a surefire M961 for 80 bucks! That thing retails for $420. I am sure actual price is lower. Sure there are newer lighter models, but you just can't beat some of these deals.

[Jellybean]

Yes, I actually just finished looking through a couple pages of the EE. There's a couple great deals on some LMT rifles (1 in particular). If I had the money, I'd go for them myself, but they're gonna be to pricey for him. But I'll definately be keeping an eye on it. I've had decent results with other products from other forums in the past.