M&P 15-22 vs CMMG

[moonshot]

I have a question on the S&W M&P 15-22 and the CMMG .22 LE-series rifles. I've read the threads, and both get excellent reviews.

I want it to be fun for new shooters, but I also want it to excel as a trainer when I need to save on ammo, and I want an AR-15 pattern rifle.

The Smith is lighter and less expensive. The CMMG has features which might make it a better long-term investment, and perhaps a higher quality rifle, but I just don't know.

Does one need a forged upper on a .22? How does the CMMG .223 lower (including the LPK) compare to other lowers? Just what is a WASP coated barrel?

Any opinions?

[shadow65]

CMMG uses the same lowers on the .22 that they use on the 5.56. I've used the 5.56 lower with my 5.56 uppers. I don't change anything.
The upper is also the same as used with a 5.56. Plastic breaks.

The WASP finish is a Nitride finish. Here is info on it. http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1702248/WASPTechSheet.pdf
The CMMG can be set up exactly like your duty weapon if desired. Only difference is the weight of the .22 BCG compared to the 5.56.

Also, the live round extraction and especially the true bolt hold open is a good extra for proper drills. Range officer likes it too.

The CMMG Quebec rifle I've been shooting has been the most reliable .22 I've ever shot. That includes AR .22's and other semi auto's. I'm at 3100+ failure free rounds so far.
Accuracy for a stock barrel is very good.

The complete rifle starts at $549.95. $350 for the upper.
Eley Match shot .807 at 50 yards
Mini mags-1.2
Winchester 333-1.295

[moonshot]

Thanks Shadow. A lot of useful info. Pardon my ignorance, but to what are you referring when you mention

live round extraction.

I was under the impression any modern rifle could extract a live round, if desired. Is this a feature unique to .22's? Am I missing something?

If this is a feature not found on all modern rifles, I guess my next two questions are "why not" and "does the M&P 15-22 have this"?

[shadow65]

With the AR .22's using the Atchinson type BCG, live round extraction has been at best, sometimes.
CMMG made some changes to their bolts to provide positive live round extraction.

[moonshot]

Is this a feature on other .22's? CMMG's conversion kits? The M&P 15-22?

If not, how does one get a live round out if needed? Seems like a feature one would want to have on any firearm. I admit I've never thought about it - just assumed pulling on the charging handle would eject a live round.

[shadow65]

With this design, CMMG is the only company I know of that has this feature. Others have tried with "enhanced extractors" but it has still been hit and miss.
I have one of the older CMMG kits and it does not have the live round extraction. It might eject one out of 5 live rounds.
The new one I have ejects every round positively.

[moonshot]

OK Shadow, that's good to know. I've been looking into this since you first brought it up. I had no idea.

I've never owned a .22 rifle, or pistol for that matter, and didn't realize that some don't have positive extractors. Learn something new every day.

I haven't found out if the Smith 15-22 has a live round extractor or not. If it doesn't, that will likely eliminate it from my consideration.

While it might be fine for me to do without the feature, I want to use this rifle as a training and teaching aid for others, including my kids, and a positive and safe way to eject a live round would seem to be an asset.

Thanks again for all your insight.

[shadow65]

I'm not finding info on the live round extraction. It does have a last round bolt hold open but I'm not sure if it stays open when the mag is released.
The CMMG bolt hold open stays open with the mag released. Works just like a regular 5.56 mag and release.

I do see the M & P 1522 upper and lower are made from reinforced ploymer. For me, that would be the deal breaker.

[moonshot]

Glocks and Kahrs seem to run pretty well on polymer. Bolt hold open is nice, but not a requirement. Safely ejecting a live round would seem to be an important feature. That is likely to be my M&P deal breaker.

[shadow65]

I don't know about the M & P but I know a Colt was sent to the shop. Customer came in to pick it up, pulled it out of the box and leaned it against the counter. Another guy came in, bumped it, and it hit the floor. Cracked the lower receiver. It was replaced but still.

The bolt hold open is important to me as a trainer for mag change drills and on the range, the Range Master can see the bolt back and cleared.