Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: Why not permanently attach a Flash Hider w/ +1,100 degree silver solder?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Barre, VT
    Posts
    4,736
    Feedback Score
    62 (100%)

    Why not permanently attach a Flash Hider w/ +1,100 degree silver solder?

    Have any of you guys permanently attached a flash hider with +1,100 degree silver solder? Here are a few products from Brownells that look like they would get the job done.

    http://www.brownells.com/1/1/8733-st...ze-fusion.html

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1..._CONTROL_PASTE

    I like the idea of being able to do it myself and being able to change a FH without destroying it. I just wonder why I do not hear about more folks doing it. Cutting off a Phantom would not be too expensive but a Battle Comp or an AAC mount/FH is kinda expensive to be throwing away. The solder looks easier and like it would look better. Do people pin because it is easier to visually inspect the perm job? Is there risk of damaging the rifling?
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    IN
    Posts
    953
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    I too would like to know more about this. I don't know any shops that offer this service, all I have seen is pin and weld. This could be for liability reasons.

    What I have read is that you apply 1100 degree silver solder paste to both sets of threads. Aplly heat stop on the exposed (non threaded) part of the barrel and any kind of chalk on the last 1/8 inch before the end of the barrel. The chalk prevents the silver solder from adhering to the barrel and the heat stop is supposed to protect the barrel as well. Once the prep is done you attach your flash hider like you normally would and make sure it's timed the way you want it. Once it's set you heat the flash hider only to 1100 degrees which requires getting the flash hider to a deep blood red look and wait for the solder to start running out. From there it's just a matter of letting it cool naturally (ie not quenching in water). Test once cool to see if the flash hider will come off.

    With that being said sounds easy enough to and I am surprised more shops/people don't do it this way.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    4,153
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Reasons:

    It looks like shit.

    It has the possibility to screw up the heat treatment of parts.

    It makes you a wannabe.

    It ruins the value of your gun.

    Buy a 16" barrel or SBR instead.
    Last edited by scottryan; 09-21-10 at 13:26.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    IN
    Posts
    953
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    So guys that buy this gun :http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...gers-s/151.htm are wannabes?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Barre, VT
    Posts
    4,736
    Feedback Score
    62 (100%)
    Rush,

    Those are the same instructions I read.

    Scotty,

    Not sure about the wanna be? I have an SBR and I am three months into the wait for the approval of my second SBR tax stamp.

    I have a 14.5" middy and had an AAC flash hider pinned. I think it would have looked alot better soldered.

    If the finish is messed up because of the high heat that would be a good reason to steer clear? Have you used the heat stop and chaulk method? If it does not work well then looks like pinning is the way to go.

    I don't see the point in spending $200 for a 14.5" bbl. I would want to go shorter for an SBR especially with the perm FH as an option. I wanted at least one non SBR to make travel easier.

    How would it ruin the value of your gun? If the heat stop and chaulk work then I would think it would make the gun easier to sell.
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts
    2,532
    Feedback Score
    12 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Reasons:

    It looks like shit.
    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    It has the possibility to screw up the heat treatment of parts.
    There's one valid point for debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    It makes you a wannabe.
    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    It ruins the value of your gun.
    If you are a collector who doesn't shoot your guns, then this might be a concern to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Buy a 16" barrel or SBR instead.
    Many of us can't own SBR's due to state restrictions. A 14.5" barrel with a perm flash hider is the shortest overall length carbine folks who are restricted from owning SBR's are legally allowed to own. There is a noticeable difference when getting in & out of a vehicle and negotiating tight hallways/doorways with a 14.5"+perm flash hider vs. a 16" with a muzzle device attached.

    That fact that it doesn't serve YOU any practical purpose, doesn't make those shooters that it is practical for "posers".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    5,044
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    It's very rare to see someone good enough to weld it so that you will not require a lot of finish work to make it look "factory". If you found that person, they would be so inundated with work of various types to be too busy to do a $60 weld job for flash suppressors.

    If you did it yourself without the proper knowledge, you get whatever you get. It might be permanent, but it might also be permanently ugly as hell. It could also change the strength or hardness of a pretty key piece of your barrel.

    I suggest you proceed with caution unless you are a knowledgeable welder, machinist, gunsmith, or other metalworker.

    As to the wannabe comments, they need to get knocked right the hell off.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Barre, VT
    Posts
    4,736
    Feedback Score
    62 (100%)
    Shivan

    Thank you. That is the info I was looking for. It sounded so easy and I could not find any one doing it. Now I know why.

    You guys can mark me as a wanna be. I wanna beable to afford that EAG carbine but it is too much for my budget. The only thing I would change would be the sling. Awesome looking set up.

    Nick

    I found an old post of yours ref pretty much the same question. I tried to PM you but the system kept crashing. Did you get set up to do the perm jobs yourself?
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South La.
    Posts
    1,805
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    I've seen some fantastic silver soldering on custom knives so I don't think "looks" is an issue. You almost have to get a magnifying gless out to see the solder.

    We have a lot of chrome-moly HP steam pipe at work and when it was installed the welds are "stress relieved" at around 900-1000 degrees, if I remember correctly. So, screwing up the "heat treating" would probably be my 1st guess why it isn't widely practiced.

    Plus if someone did a good soldering job, it would be hard to do a visual inspection to tell if the FH was removable. I'm sure some gungho BATF guy that did not see a pin or weld would confiscate and ask questions later?? Maybe the law requires some visual positive proof the FH can't be removed??

    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,095
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    It's very rare to see someone good enough to weld it so that you will not require a lot of finish work to make it look "factory".
    If you found that person, they would be so inundated with work of various types to be too busy to do a $60 weld job for flash suppressors.
    Well said.

    My biggest complaint about silver solder jobs as typically done on AR barrels is that they don't pass BATFE's "common hand tools" test.
    The way I saw it explained is that if you can remove a muzzle device with common handtools and non damage the barrel beyond use in the act of that, then the Batfe would not consider the job to have been permanent.
    I have removed many silver soldered muzzle devices with a 3/4" combination wrench.
    That's a pretty "common" hand tool in my book.

    Here is an example of one such barrel that had been re-parkerized after the silver solder job:

    Last edited by AR15barrels; 09-21-10 at 15:15.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    4,153
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post

    Scotty,

    Not sure about the wanna be? I have an SBR and I am three months into the wait for the approval of my second SBR tax stamp.

    I have a 14.5" middy and had an AAC flash hider pinned. I think it would have looked alot better soldered.

    If the finish is messed up because of the high heat that would be a good reason to steer clear? Have you used the heat stop and chaulk method? If it does not work well then looks like pinning is the way to go.

    I don't see the point in spending $200 for a 14.5" bbl. I would want to go shorter for an SBR especially with the perm FH as an option. I wanted at least one non SBR to make travel easier.

    How would it ruin the value of your gun? If the heat stop and chaulk work then I would think it would make the gun easier to sell.

    If you have an SBR already, why are you getting more permanent flash hiders?

    Why not get more NFA uppers?
    Last edited by scottryan; 09-21-10 at 15:52.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    408
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by AR15barrels View Post
    Well said.

    My biggest complaint about silver solder jobs as typically done on AR barrels is that they don't pass BATFE's "common hand tools" test.
    The way I saw it explained is that if you can remove a muzzle device with common handtools and non damage the barrel beyond use in the act of that, then the Batfe would not consider the job to have been permanent.
    I have removed many silver soldered muzzle devices with a 3/4" combination wrench.
    That's a pretty "common" hand tool in my book.

    Here is an example of one such barrel that had been re-parkerized after the silver solder job:

    man thats ugly brings a tear to my eye
    DEATH SMILES AT US ALL, ALL WE CAN DO IS SMILE BACK

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,095
    Feedback Score
    0
    When you twist off a pinned muzzle device, you damage the barrel beyond use...



    You would not believe some of the things people send me.
    That's why I take pictures.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    4,153
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by nickdrak View Post

    If you are a collector who doesn't shoot your guns, then this might be a concern to you.

    Irrelavent.

    When you go to sell this barrel after an inexperienced person realizes their foolish ways to get an SBR, they will lose money. The money they could have bought a tax stamp with in the first place.

    It has nothing to do with collectability.

    There is a noticeable difference when getting in & out of a vehicle and negotiating tight hallways/doorways with a 14.5"+perm flash hider vs. a 16" with a muzzle device attached.
    I already know that. That is the only valid reason for this if you live in a communist state.
    Last edited by scottryan; 09-21-10 at 15:51.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Barre, VT
    Posts
    4,736
    Feedback Score
    62 (100%)
    I love my SBR and can't wait for my second to be approved. I've been bitten by the bug. I wish we could have supressors here in VT. My checkbook is glad we can not. Like I said earlier I wanted one non SBR so I do not need a travel letter if I want to take an AR out of state.
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    408
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote:
    There is a noticeable difference when getting in & out of a vehicle and negotiating tight hallways/doorways with a 14.5"+perm flash hider vs. a 16" with a muzzle device attached.

    Quote:
    I already know that.

    so what exactly makes people who want to do this a wannabe ?
    DEATH SMILES AT US ALL, ALL WE CAN DO IS SMILE BACK

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    4,153
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by devildogljb View Post
    Quote:
    There is a noticeable difference when getting in & out of a vehicle and negotiating tight hallways/doorways with a 14.5"+perm flash hider vs. a 16" with a muzzle device attached.

    Quote:
    I already know that.

    so what exactly makes people who want to do this a wannabe ?

    I'd still rather have a 16" barrel.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,219
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    IMO: It's far easier to just let ADCO pin it for $30. I've gotten it done by them several times in the past (one very recently) and all have been perfect.

    Every time I've gotten my upper back in 5-7 days as well.
    Paul A. Hotaling
    Alias Training & Security Services, LLC
    Paul@aliastraining.com
    757-215-1959 (Mon-Fri 8AM-5PM)
    757-985-9586 (After Hours)
    www.aliastraining.com


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    5,044
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by devildogljb View Post
    so what exactly makes people who want to do this a wannabe ?
    See my warning above in blue. I've asked that the "wannabe" discussion be ceased, please let it end.

    Thanks.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Barre, VT
    Posts
    4,736
    Feedback Score
    62 (100%)
    Here is an example of one such barrel that had been re-parkerized after the silver solder job:

    [/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by AR15barrels View Post
    When you twist off a pinned muzzle device, you damage the barrel beyond use...



    You would not believe some of the things people send me.
    That's why I take pictures.
    The first photos were scary looking the second ones made me laugh! This is exactly what I was looking for thank you. I thought there must have been a good reason. If it is too good to be true there is usually a reason.

    Keep the camera handy!
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •