When to Splurge vs When to Scrimp?

[jklaughrey]

I think part of the issue at hand is that I dare say most of us here on M4C have the mindset that we need or desire a weapon that follows TDP, or as close to when purchasing parts. Reasoning is for function and proven reliability. Quite a few of us have to depend upon said weapons under extreme circumstance, either daily or when called upon to do so. I can understand your argument, and I suppose for a "safe queen" or a hobbyist shooter it would seem logical. Although most would argue that a weapon should be first and foremost, esp. this style of weapon as a "battle rifle/HD, etc.." type format. Therefore desiring quality parts and vetted manufacturers' of said parts is not only a key component, but vital to those of us who do depend upon said weapon. You bring up cost issue and saving money, hey who doesn't want that right? But ponder this you will spend the amount your weapon cost a few times over on training, gear, and ammo. If you are having to scrimp on parts, an AR platform may not be the best choice if you can't afford decent ammo and training to use it effectively. Not trying to offend you but your argument is fundamentally inconsistent with the majority of members here on M4C.

Cheers.

[The_Hammer_Man]

For most "custom builds" that I've done the first thing I asked the client was ....

"What do you want to be able to do with this rifle?"

"What will be it's primary purpose?"

"Will it be a collectors piece or a "work gun"?"

These questions, and more, are asked every time someone asks me to build them an upper or a complete weapon.

Once it's "final purpose" is determined the areas/parts that you can cut cost on become pretty apparent.

Now, before you get out your flamethrowers... I use the TDP and MilSpec as my STARTING POINT.

If the parts do not meet those basic standards I do NOT want them on a rifle that has my name down as it's builder. Call it proffessional pride, call it covering my ass liability wise. But, that's where I start.

Nifty doodad's like the personalized dust covers and the like are user specific and I'd never offer them as part of a build. If it doesn't add to the rifle's reliability or accuracy I don't install it. period.

Yes, it loses me customers at times. but I'd rather lose a potential sale then worry about giving some guy a weapon that I don't feel is built to maximum reliability standards.

In any case, a smart builder spends most of his money on his barrel,trigger and FF tube. The rest of the upper receiver parts NEED to be at least milspec if not better in order for them to be as reliable as possible.

I build rifles that I would want in my hands if the SHTF.

Dog is a dog... if it can do tricks.. cool.. but his primary job is to bark!

nuff said

[jklaughrey]

I love you man, in a non gay manner. Excellent post. Pride in one's work is something that you don't see too often. But when you do it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Cheers!

[The_Hammer_Man]

I love you man, in a non gay manner. Excellent post. Pride in one's work is something that you don't see too often. But when you do it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Cheers!

"some non-gay man-love back at ya... "

The whole.. where to cut costs thing has been the buggaboo of EVERY purchasing agent that ever existed. If any of you work for agencies or provide for agencies you know what I'm talking about. Their whole existences revolve around keeping costs to a minimum so that their end year reports look all rosey. Dumb but true.

If you work for , or provide for LEO or Gov agencies you will have to draw a line in the sand about what/where you will cut costs or use less than perfect parts.
The best way to keep them from railroading you into building crap weps is to give them documentation about reliability and life span of "less than milspec" parts.

Fact of life: Junk parts cost more, over time, than quality parts on average. This doesn't mean ALL the time.. but on the average.

Lets talk gas blocks.. not the most expensive part extant right? But, as you know, there are good gas blocks and BAD gas blocks. This part is one that is usually given the chop,quality wise, when building custom uppers for an agency.

If you determine a weapons intended purpose,, ie precision,tactical,competition,hunting, etc the parts list narrows dramatically.

12" tube on a carbine? That means I can use just about any milspec gas block I want to. As long as it fits under the tube and seals properly with the barrel/gas port. (IE, tighter than a misers fist on a cold winters night!)

The only time I'll use "designer label" gas blocks is if the build requires it, or , the customer requests it.

How many of you have a box of A2 or A1 FSB's?
(I have BOXES of the damn things!)

Time to cut and grind one down? thirty minutes max. Time to refinish? Five seconds (Duracoat is my friend

When a customer calls me and jabbers excitedly about how they like the rifle or upper I built them it DOES feel pretty dang good.

Doesn't matter if they're killing squirrels or pieces of paper at the range. If it puts bullets where you aim it EVERY time YOU do you your job right then I'm happy.

my sig SHOULD have read:

A dog is a dog.. if it can do tricks.. cool.. but his primary job is to bite!

nuff said

[jklaughrey]

Agreed, and +5 on the sig.

[Arcana71]

I have a few Noveske "C*ck Fag" covers....

Completely aside... I find it interesting that you self-censored one half of that, yet not the other.

[usmcvet]

I never said the ejection port cover was important or improved the gun. I just want one. I like the saying.

Big boy/girl rules. If you don't like it don't buy it. It is your money.

[MistWolf]

I'll make it as simple as possible. "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus."

Bang on, right there. Firearms are capable of taking lives and must be able to do so when called upon by the shooter. From the little .22 pistol all the way up to the lever actioned 45-70 to the 10 gauge goose gun. Be sure that they all have been used to take and save lives. Certain types may fall outside this such as rail guns. Still, they could be used as sniper rifles though awkward to do so.

I have a couple of firearms that do not run 100%. One because I need to spend more time to get it right. Another needs overdue maintenance to replace worn springs and other small parts. I don't know if my life will depend on the reliability of a firearm and I hope I never have to find out. I will however, feel rather foolish because I got dead because I was caught out with "just a range gun".

Don't disparage shooting dirt. Many a round has been sent down range by myself, my family and good friends. It's one way we find out how well our weapons function and it's good practice shooting at a variety of targets in different conditions at guesstimated ranges. Not as serious as carbine classes nor formal as paper punching but much more fun and teaches it's own important lessons.

Far as where to scrimp? Identify what you need, what you want and what you'd like and be honest as to what fits into each category. For example, I need a forearm for my carbine, I want to be able to fit a good flashlight for home defense and I'd like the forearm to be made of composites. Original forearms are cheapest. Railed forearms are easiest to mount flashlights but cost more. Composite forearms that have rails are generally lighter and cooler to the hand when the carbine is run hard but also the good ones are expensive. I can scrimp by getting the original type forearms until I can afford a flashlight, appropriate mount and a free float forearm.

I need sights, I want optics and I'd like an ACOG. I can scrimp by using simple iron sights until I can afford a redot or Eotech or the Acog that I really want.

I need a barrel, I want a carbine and I'd like a 14.5 inch barrel with a Battlecomp 1.5. I can scrimp by installing a 16 inch barrel with an A2 birdcage until I can save up for the Battlecomp and the trip to Adco.

While scrimping, I may not have my ideal carbine or rifle, but I'll have something to shoot and will gain experience towards deciding what I'd really like to have