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Thread: 50 yard Zero

  1. #1
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    50 yard Zero

    Hello, Everyone

    I've been doing research one which Zero would be best overall for a M4; so far I have gotten alot of people are saying to go with a 50 yard Zero vs the U.S Army's Standard 25 yard zero.

    I found the following data: (from AR15armory.org)

    " If You want to shoot 15-100y for most of your shooting. With your current zero you will be ~6" high at 100y depending on barrel length and ammo. Since 25y is your zero, everything beyond that will be high, ~2.2" high at 50y, 6" at 100y, ~8" high at 150y and ~9" high at 200y. Your numbers will be worse than a Mil zero (numbers given by TS above) because that zero target you used is really a 31y zero because it requires adding elevation to zero (the z setting on the elevation knob on the carry handle iron sights, 8/3 or 6/3+ 1) and then backing down to 8/3 or 6/3 for your battlesight zero.

    If you use a 50y zero, then you will be ~1.2" low at 25y, dead on at 50y, ~1.5" high at 100y, ~.5" high at 200y. See these charts for a very good description and recommendations from the Army Marksmanship Unit. AMU zeroing data "

    http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/Servic...-M4%20data.pdf

    http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/...LBS_Target.pdf

    I'm Using a Eotech 511, on a yankee hill raiser; iron sights are alerady zero'd. Just trying to figure out how to get setup here.

    Does anybody know if they make 50 Yard laser boresight Target Like the Eotech one ? I know some People in the Army/Military have a AKO account with different documents or files for Targets i heard.
    Last edited by skunkhaze; 09-30-10 at 14:43.

  2. #2
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    I am a big fan of the 50 yard zero. My dept uses them on our patrol rifles and it is the best zero for a carbine IMO.

    No need to mess with your sights from 0-300 yards. 400 yards requires a bit of hold over but not to bad.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    [QUOTE=Magic_Salad0892;1823265]THIS THREAD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT CHRISTMAS GIFTS, NOT MY CRABS!

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    hmm the max rise on a 25 yard zero is 7"? Other charts I've seen say its a rise of 10"

    I like the 50 yard zeros myself

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    What would be the best way to setup a M4 for a 50 yard zero? Can't seem to find any laser boresight targets for 50 yards for red-dots/eotechs
    Last edited by skunkhaze; 09-30-10 at 14:30.

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    Setup a bullseye target at 50y and shoot it...

    There's been a few threads on this, checkout the optics subforum.

    Here's a good thread and a pdf to start you out.
    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35064

    http://grburnett.us/guns/ImprovedBattlesightZero.pdf
    Last edited by devilsdeeds; 09-30-10 at 14:58.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkhaze View Post
    Hello, Everyone

    I've been doing research one which Zero would be best overall for a M4; so far I have gotten alot of people are saying to go with a 50 yard Zero vs the U.S Army's Standard 25 yard zero.

    I found the following data: (from AR15armory.org)

    " If You want to shoot 15-100y for most of your shooting. With your current zero you will be ~6" high at 100y depending on barrel length and ammo. Since 25y is your zero, everything beyond that will be high, ~2.2" high at 50y, 6" at 100y, ~8" high at 150y and ~9" high at 200y. Your numbers will be worse than a Mil zero (numbers given by TS above) because that zero target you used is really a 31y zero because it requires adding elevation to zero (the z setting on the elevation knob on the carry handle iron sights, 8/3 or 6/3+ 1) and then backing down to 8/3 or 6/3 for your battlesight zero.

    If you use a 50y zero, then you will be ~1.2" low at 25y, dead on at 50y, ~1.5" high at 100y, ~.5" high at 200y. See these charts for a very good description and recommendations from the Army Marksmanship Unit. AMU zeroing data "

    http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/Servic...-M4%20data.pdf

    http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/...LBS_Target.pdf

    I'm Using a Eotech 511, on a yankee hill raiser; iron sights are alerady zero'd. Just trying to figure out how to get setup here.

    Does anybody know if they make 50 Yard laser boresight Target Like the Eotech one ? I know some People in the Army/Military have a AKO account with different documents or files for Targets i heard.
    300 meter zero is the standard Army Zero. The 25 yard zero is used to approximate a 300M zero, for time saving purposes. Same as for the 50M or yard zero is used for a 200 (225) yard zero. It's damn close, but you should always zero at the furthest distance as a final check.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkhaze View Post
    What would be the best way to setup a M4 for a 50 yard zero? Can't seem to find any laser boresight targets for 50 yards for red-dots/eotechs
    Start close 10-20 yards get on the paper then move back some more shoot repeat before you know it your sighted at 50 yards. Sandbags and a makeshift bench are what I use for the fine tuning. You can draw a dot on a peice of paper or cardboard and aim at it. No need for special targets. With good optics i like to shoot a hole then aim for it to make little groups...fun

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    I know Larry Vickers does (or did) advocate for a 100yd zero and a few weeks back I was trying to find the posts that discussed why he chose 100yds over the much more common 50yds but never found the thread. I'm sure he has a good reason...

    PREP threads for his classes say to have it zeroed at 100yds or prepare to know and answer why you chose another zero... (Cross-examined by Vickers doesn't sound fun)...

    I zero at 50yds because I like that trajectory path for my possible needs and it is easy to zero at 50yds... My eyes can see the details of a 50yd target much clearer than I can a 100yd target...

    As for laser boresights and all that stuff, forget it... Don't need it... Shoot at 25 yards and get that centered and an inch or so low... Then move to 50. You will be on paper and not too far off. Adjust as needed...

    When putting on a new sight or scope, I seperate the upper and remove the BCG... I then peek through the barrel at some object and while holding the upper still I adjust the sight/scope to that object. Then you move to the 25yd paper... Really easy, honest...

    Rmpl
    Do you know? What Would Y'shua Do?

    "Our destruction... will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence..."
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    Thanks guys for the help

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    dont need a boresighter. In my experience irons will be on paper at 50 yards on new builds. If you have a red do, zero the irons first, then you can then just cowitness the red dot with the irons. Get it as close as you can then zero the red dot and fine tune as necessary.

    If you dont have irons with a red dot, you can pull the upper off and look through the barrel and then where the red dot is pointing and you can at least get it on paper that way.
    Last edited by ForTehNguyen; 09-30-10 at 15:41.

  11. #11
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    Rmpl,
    I'm taking a Vicker course in November and was reading the same thing about the 100 yard zero. I currently have mine zero'd at 50. I may change it for the class and then switch back afterwards. That's called being chicken and having to worry about being grilled as to why I went with a 50yd zero

  12. #12
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    100 yard zero has the max bullet rise at around 100 yards, anything after that is a holdover. Bullet basically rises and kisses its peak at near 100 yards before coming back down

    I doubt Vickers will hound you over it, zeroes are personal preference.

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    I don't think he would give me much grief either. However, from what I've read here 50yard zero is what I will stick with. When I first went in the Army mid 80's 25/300 was what we were told and how we zero'd. 50yr/200m seems more practical over all though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rmplstlskn View Post
    I know Larry Vickers does (or did) advocate for a 100yd zero and a few weeks back I was trying to find the posts that discussed why he chose 100yds over the much more common 50yds but never found the thread. I'm sure he has a good reason...

    PREP threads for his classes say to have it zeroed at 100yds or prepare to know and answer why you chose another zero... (Cross-examined by Vickers doesn't sound fun)...

    I zero at 50yds because I like that trajectory path for my possible needs and it is easy to zero at 50yds... My eyes can see the details of a 50yd target much clearer than I can a 100yd target...

    As for laser boresights and all that stuff, forget it... Don't need it... Shoot at 25 yards and get that centered and an inch or so low... Then move to 50. You will be on paper and not too far off. Adjust as needed...

    When putting on a new sight or scope, I seperate the upper and remove the BCG... I then peek through the barrel at some object and while holding the upper still I adjust the sight/scope to that object. Then you move to the 25yd paper... Really easy, honest...

    Rmpl
    His former Unit (SFOD-D) used it (100M Zero) and it suited there purposes. As long as you can justify your zero, and you can hit accurately with it (and knowing your hold overs at varying distances), I'm sure LAV won't mind.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

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    Sighting in at 50 yards puts you dead on at 50 (obviously) and about 225 and you are never more than 2 inches off.

    IMO, it really is the best way to go.

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    Target at 25 yards with Aimpoint zeroed at 50.
    Point of aim is the red dot; point of impact just over an inch low.

    .
    -David


    USAF 1987-2008 {461/2W0 Munitions Tech}
    FN Mfg. 2008-???? http://www.fnmfg.com/

    AR-15 owner/shooter since 1998

    .

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    +1 to the 50 yard zero! I just sighted my new Aimpoint M4S in at 50 yards and was very pleased with the results. I sighted in using the bench of course but once I got it zeroed I started shooting while standing. Lets just say that I need more practice shooting off-hand like that. I've been watching the Magpul dvd's for the carbine and pistol but its definitely no substitute to actually going out and getting the trigger time. That being said my brother and I plan on making a range trip once a week from now on.

  18. #18
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    50 yd zero for me. There's also a lot of good info in this thread with excellent graphs from Molon (look on page 3)

    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37069

    There's one more zero thread that I can't track down right now
    Last edited by Icculus; 10-01-10 at 10:24.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkhaze View Post
    What would be the best way to setup a M4 for a 50 yard zero? Can't seem to find any laser boresight targets for 50 yards for red-dots/eotechs
    remove the upper and the bcg from the upper. secure the upper in a solid rest. look through the bore at something at 50 yds. bring the sight into alignment with that. confirm by actually firing the gun...
    never push a wrench...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeliPilot View Post
    +1 to the 50 yard zero! I just sighted my new Aimpoint M4S in at 50 yards and was very pleased with the results. I sighted in using the bench of course but once I got it zeroed I started shooting while standing. Lets just say that I need more practice shooting off-hand like that. I've been watching the Magpul dvd's for the carbine and pistol but its definitely no substitute to actually going out and getting the trigger time. That being said my brother and I plan on making a range trip once a week from now on.
    This is exactly right. IMO, way too many people spend all their time shooting their home defense/SHTF ARs from the bench. A while back it dawned on me that if I ever had to use an AR for defensive purposes it is almost guaranteed not to be from a comfortable bench. This is why I try to spend at least half the time shooting my ARís standing.

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