the next one on my list

**mkmckinley** · 11-08-10, 21:18

Originally Posted by coyote hunter

So I've seen some of you say that Para & Kimber are a bit lower in quality. What makes you think so? I have minimal experience with both companies. I've never heard badly of Kimber or Para. I just personally don't like Glocks I can say I have owned one..... For about two hours. I was lucky enough to pick up a Glock 23 in .40 for $300. I called a buddy who needed a gun for the Police academy and sold it to him, but that’s a different story.

The main reason I have discounted Glocks for carry is two main reasons. No exposed hammer and no "safety" switch. I do know that they are just feel good switches, but that’s just me.

So if anyone has a personal experience, link to hard evidence, or anything against Para please post it, I'm still leaning toward the GI expert, but I am always looking for more info on a purchase.

$500 is still a large amount of money to me, and anything over $800 is just about out of reach for me right now.

Like I said in the original post CC is not legal yet in my state, and I won't be buying a "defensive only" handgun until it is, If I can buy a fun gun that will satisfy that use too, I'm all for it.

In the $1000 price range you're going to get a lot of MIM with may or may not be important. It has its applications in parts like a grip safety. IMO the thumb safety, slide stop, and other critical components that are subjected to reasonable stress are not good places to have MIM. In the $1000 dollar price range you aren't going to get as much fitting or as many tool steel parts as, say, a $1600 Les Baer. You get what you pay for.

Based on what you've said in your thread your requirements are:
.45 ACP
thumb safety
exposed hammer
carry-worthy reliability
...for less than $1000.

I think your best bet is probably to save toward an HK45. It's sort of the 21st century offspring of the 1911 in terms of functionality.

I hate to steer you away from a 1911. I love the platform and I own three. That said, the only one I'd feel comfortable carrying would be a Les Baer that cost $2200 new and that would be on the rare occasion I felt like carrying a 36oz gun with only 8 round in the mag. There are a lot of things engineered into the better modern guns that weren't even considered 100 years ago. A $900 HK45 makes a $900 1911 obsolete. You have to pay a lot more for a 1911 to get the reliability, accuracy, longevity, corrosion resistance, and shootability of a lesser modern weapon. If you really only have $500 to spend and want a pistol worthy of defending yourself you may want to come to terms with a Glock or M&P45. There a lot of shooters that can perform very well with those guns with a little training. You can get a thumb safety on an M&P45.

**mkmckinley** · 11-08-10, 21:21

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_produ...45_general.asp

**coyote hunter** · 11-09-10, 15:08

At this point, I've decided on a Springfield "loaded" it’s still under $1000 but not by as much as where I thought I was going to be with a final price on this. I've handled the gun at the shop, and I like it, better trigger than my Ruger, and it’s a 1911, what’s not to like?

Carry isn't legal yet (in my state), so I'm not buying this as a carry gun.

I do believe I will eventually "come to terms" with a Glock when carrying is legal, but that could be a ways away.

Right now, I'm having a hard time believing all of you with the $1000 minimum for a 1911, but I bet before I'm done with a 1911 I'll understand. I just have a hard time grasping that concept, but whatever. It's not a carry gun, it’s a range gun. I started with the hopes of buying a "do all 1911" for a price I like. But it doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

**Jitterbug** · 11-09-10, 17:09

Coyote

I haven't read through all the posts, but, some of the advice was really sound, especially going with the M&P .45 if you want affordable and something you can rely upon without having to "tinker" with it. At least from what I've read...my wife has a M&P9c, with low round count, a buddy put 5-6k through a .40 and another buddy with a .40 is on 1k or so, with no issues what so ever, other then a lousy trigger. I've had a couple of Glocks, while good guns, they usually go bang, I don't regret selling them. I'd take an M&P over a Glock any time, just based on ergonomics.

I've had 3 1911's and I'm shopping for a 4th, a "budget" range gun so this thread caught my eye.

I have a 4" Kimber Compact CDP II and a Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm, both of these are carry guns, both of these needed some work, brand new, out of the box, both of these cost over a $1000.00. Both of them run pretty good right now...

I recently sold a Colt 80 series, that was a really nice pistol...still kicking self, but I needed the cash as the moment.

I'm not a cop, soldier or some such, just an average Joe who CCW's, target shoots, and hunts. If needed I'm about 99.1% certain my guns will run.

With one certain mag my CBOB will choke, which is good for clearing practice...only takes a second.

But...if I were one of the above and wanted 99.999% I'd probably carry something different, like the M&P.

I've narrowed my under $1000, 1911 to a Kimber Custom II, an STI Spartan and possibly a Springfield loaded, or if I can find one a decent Colt, however on the 1911 forums the current crop of Imbel Springfield's are getting a bad rap, so I may just go with the Kimber, I've yet to handle a Spartan but have read lots and lots of good stuff about them and STI backs them up...Google is your friend.

I haven't yet made a decision yet and I intend to keep shopping and handling guns, this is important because no two are the same, this is true of guns other then 1911's.

But, until I rule out the Spartan, I'm leaning towards the Kimber Custom II for around $750 ish.

Kimber customer service is decent if needed.

**friendlyfireisnt** · 11-09-10, 21:00

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.

D Williams

I picked one up in a trade a few months ago, for a couple reasons. First, I picked up a lightly modified Springfield Mil-Spec the same day, and I wanted a back up. Second, I wanted a pistol with a few mods so I could decide what I really wanted/needed on a 1911 pistol, rather than just fondling them in a store and making a decision that way. Third, I wanted a pistol I could keep in my jeep, and not worry about it getting beat up or thrashed.

Your Taurus might work great, and Clint Smith's might work great too, but shooting mine was an exercise in frustration. Constant FTE and FTF with multiple brands of quality factory ammo, and multiple types of magazines (CMC, Wilson, Taurus, Kimber, USGI, etc).

Taurus has repaired it, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it since to see. I probably won't trust it for a long time, if ever.

On the flip side, my Springfield, which as I mentioned is lightly modified works perfectly fine, and is my new CCW piece.

**mkmckinley** · 11-09-10, 23:18

Originally Posted by Dirk Williams

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.

Do your self a favor and at least take the time to physically look at one along with one of these others. You won't be able to tell the difference except for the name on the slide.

D Williams

I respect your experience but I would argue that most people who buy a Taurus haven't held or shot a Wilson.

I played the 1911 game and bought an entry level Kimber before trading up a few times and ending up with a Baer. After training with 1911's and learning as much as I could about them I wouldn't tell anyone to buy a $2000 1911 if they want a duty ready gun for less than $2000. That's what Glocks and M&Ps are for. Given the fitting and parts quality required to make one reliable a 1911 is not something I would feel comfortable cheaping out on.

**Swamp Yankee** · 11-10-10, 06:58

Hey I am also fairly new to the world of 1911's.

I recently purchased a used Springfield TRP model for around $650 at my local gun shop. I really wanted a railed model, but all that was available near me with rails was the Kimber Custom II series which I will not buy. So I settled for the non-railed TRP. The TRP is an awesome option and if you do your research I am sure you can find one near you.

**BBossman** · 11-10-10, 09:20

The subject of "offshore" versus quality "domestic" 1911's has been beat to death here and on every other firearms forum. The only thing I will add is, if you want a 1911 just for the sake of owning a 1911, get what you can afford. But, if you want a 1911 for future QUALITY custom work, get a Colt or Springfield, something a smith will actually work on.