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Thread: The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC0352 View Post
    Proper assembly of those parts during manufacturing is crucial to a reliable weapon, but if Bushmaster/RRA, etc. settles for lower quality steel and batch testing instead of testing everything, do you think they're inclined to put the parts together as well as Colt/BCM, who goes the extra mile in parts quality and testing?

    One of the best points made so far.

  2. #132
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    Pointless

    We can invite you to the party, but we can't force you to dance. Good luck with whatever purchases you have made or will make in the future. Now back under your bridge...troll!
    Never judge a man by his success, judge by how he deals with his failures!- L.E.C.

    Some People suck at being Human!- Me

    "To keep you is no gain, to destroy you is no loss."- Khmer Rouge

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    So, this data is so important to you, but you're not going to call any of the major manufacturers or any of the people that I mentioned and try to get said data? If you refuse to do that, then you have accomplished nothing except waste a ton of air. Raising a criticism but doing nothing to help means that all you've done is wasted air.

    You want consumer data? Pick up the newspaper and see how many bad guys got gunned down with soldiers wielding these weapons yesterday. When you're done with that, look and see who's manufacturing those weapons... HINT HINT: it ain't Bushmaster!

    What you fail to understand is that the TDP, from which the chart was based, is the result of decades of research and design from government agencies cooperating with the firearms industry to determine how to ensure that the *millions* of rifles being fielded are reliable right off the shelf. The TDP, and the chart that follows from it, are the result of decades of the very same consumer reporting data that you're requesting.
    You have a reading comprehension problem. I did not demand the information. Except for the numbers supporting your claim of "statistically insignificant", did you make that up? Are statistics possible without numbers?

    I merely pointed out a deficiency with the chart based on the author's stated purpose.

    I don't care about bushmaster. I own one, but so what. I have been sipping the Noveske and LMT Koolaid like a fine bourbon for a couple of years now and I am content with my purchases. I got to good stuff long before the magical chart showed up.

    Next I going for KAC Koolaid, I know it is off the chart but I am willing to take the chance.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacoastnh View Post
    You have a reading comprehension problem. I did not demand the information. Except for the numbers supporting your claim of "statistically insignificant", did you make that up? Are statistics possible without numbers?
    And I told you exactly where to find them, and you ignored it. Congratulations, you're willingly ignorant!

    Next I going for KAC Koolaid, I know it is off the chart but I am willing to take the chance.
    Yep, and if you had bothered to read anything on this site, you would know *exactly* why it's not on the Chart (hint hint: it's in the first paragraph of the "explanation of features" section of the Chart). But then, you don't read anything, much less attempt to comprehend anything... you're just a troll. Good luck to you.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC0352 View Post
    Proper assembly of those parts during manufacturing is crucial to a reliable weapon, but if Bushmaster/RRA, etc. settles for lower quality steel and batch testing instead of testing everything, do you think they're inclined to put the parts together as well as Colt/BCM, who goes the extra mile in parts quality and testing?
    In my first post I said the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by seacoastnh View Post
    I am not a manufacturing expert, but I believe the manufacturing process and controls are important. If you believe the process and quality controls are not important, then the chart is everything you believe it is. It has the specs, it must be quality, or maybe it’s a Hyundai.

    If on the other hand you believe variation and deviation in the manufacturing process significantly impact quality then share with me the virtues of the “Chart” in discerning quality? Hopefully you have more than brand A uses batch testing and brand B tests each one.

    I am going to speculate that Colt has a team of engineers that are responsible for managing deviation and variation in their manufacturing process and that if a company sell parts to colt, its process and quality controls are checked by colt. Colt may well belong in the first position, but what about the rest of the pecking order?

    I want out of the box reliability, not customer service. Which column on the chart should I be looking at?
    I don't think we disagree on what is necessary for a good manufacturing process.

    I merely claim that the chart can't quantify quality.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by stifled View Post
    I don't think you read that book very close. Do you honestly believe that you can take inferior metals input into the same manufacturing process and come out with a better gun at the end a meaningful number of times because of multiple variable set theory? That's some fuzzy logic, alright.

    I smell a person from a third tier manufacturer trying to justify corner cutting.
    Agreed about your logic.

    I smell a teenager that thinks he is smarter then he is.
    Mobocracy is alive and well in America.*
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  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacoastnh View Post
    I merely claim that the chart can't quantify quality.
    Just my opinion, but I think you're reaching a bit too far to drive your point home, and have come up lacking.

    Could you think of a better way to quantify quality; besides materials used, testing procedures, dimensions to follow? I honestly can't.
    Last edited by JC0352; 11-02-10 at 17:40.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    And I told you exactly where to find them, and you ignored it. Congratulations, you're willingly ignorant!



    Yep, and if you had bothered to read anything on this site, you would know *exactly* why it's not on the Chart (hint hint: it's in the first paragraph of the "explanation of features" section of the Chart). But then, you don't read anything, much less attempt to comprehend anything... you're just a troll. Good luck to you.
    Your stupidity is starting to annoy me. I asked if the BCM barrel that was shooting 12 MOA out of the box was statistically significant. It was somewhat a rhetorical question, but you took the bait and in response you said:

    Originally Posted by justin_247
    "Statistically insignificant based upon quality control and the company's eagerness to understand any problems and correct them."

    I was fairly confident that you did not know even know the number of barrels produced by BCM over any time period much less how many failed to fire acceptable groups and therefore could not possibly know whether it was "statistically significant."

    I say you are lying about any knowledge about the quality control program at BCM, production numbers and nature of any failures that may have occurred.

    But you can read the Chart!

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac5.56 View Post
    Agreed about your logic.

    I smell a teenager that thinks he is smarter then he is.
    Not even close, though some in this thread would accept your statement as fact based on your post count.

    Much like they worship the chart.

  10. #140
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    Let's all calm down and take a quick lesson in common sense.....

    This is what most should get from the chart. I like to be very short and sweet ...

    The chart is based on FACT... PROVEN FACT.
    The chart does not promote ANY brand of weapon.
    The chart shows which brands have matched or exceeded the TDP.
    If there is something missing from the chart on your rifle, it does NOT mean it FAILS.

    The two most important questions you should ask yourself about your weapon or the one you are thinking about purchasing are this....

    1.) Will my rifle stand up to a ton of abuse and still be reliable enough to protect myself or others?

    2.) If I'm planning to spend XXX amount of money on rifle "a" and there is a rifle further left on the chart, is it worth the extra amount of money for that extra piece of mind.
    "Perfect Practice Makes Perfect"
    "There are 550 million firearms on this planet. That's one firearm for every 12 people. The question is... How do we arm the other 11?" Lord of War.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." Thomas Jefferson

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