The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[MistWolf]

...That's why I elected to fly in the military...

Uh-oh! Another pilot asking technical questions!

"C'mere Cap'n. Look at this picture. That's right, tip the magazine sideways and fold out that page. Ain't she a beaut? Just look at them gams- they go all the way up..."

Quick! Somebody get that wrench from him while he's distracted!

Just having fun with you, nolan. Had one pilot hire on with us as a co-pilot & part time A&P technician. As an A&P myself, I told him if he ever made left seat, I wasn't going to let him wield anything more dangerous than a screwdriver and that only under close supervision

[R Moran]

Nolan,
Not sure what all that meant, but....

There are plenty of stickied posts and threads around here. Hint, they're stickied for a reason. There is also the search function. Just about all of this has been covered ad nauseam.

I did however jump out of and puke in more then my share of C-130's,..... "Jumpin', Humpin' or Nuthin'"

And before you say it, the Air Force doesn't have any perfectly good airplanes!

120,
See my comments about my education

Bob

[Don Robison]

And before you say it, the Air Force doesn't have any perfectly good airplanes!

BS, they're all sitting in air parks.

[nolanwb]

BS, they're all sitting in air parks.

Still beats walking, or jumping...

[nolanwb]

Uh-oh! Another pilot asking technical questions!

"C'mere Cap'n. Look at this picture. That's right, tip the magazine sideways and fold out that page. Ain't she a beaut? Just look at them gams- they go all the way up..."

Quick! Somebody get that wrench from him while he's distracted!

Just having fun with you, nolan. Had one pilot hire on with us as a co-pilot & part time A&P technician. As an A&P myself, I told him if he ever made left seat, I wasn't going to let him wield anything more dangerous than a screwdriver and that only under close supervision

Dang, and I thought that you guys only had a twelve pound sledgehammer to work with... You've ruined my entire day... But, I do remember some USAF pilots that I would refuse to fly with if I had a choice.

[nolanwb]

Nolan,
Not sure what all that meant, but....

There are plenty of stickied posts and threads around here. Hint, they're stickied for a reason. There is also the search function. Just about all of this has been covered ad nauseam.

I did however jump out of and puke in more then my share of C-130's,..... "Jumpin', Humpin' or Nuthin'"

And before you say it, the Air Force doesn't have any perfectly good airplanes!

120,
See my comments about my education

Bob

Bob,

Since I'm crazy I often tell myself a joke. Here's one I'm telling to myself at the moment. If it required a "rocket scientist" to drive the Abrams or the M-4 there would be around 1,000 troops in service rather the 750,000 ground troops that we have. Yeah, yeah, and there would be around three pilots left... Gotcha afore ya got me But, seriously, the plan with all military equipment is to make it as simple as possible to cover the most troops possible. But, some of us do know better than to jump out of a perfectly "flyable" aircraft while carrying a M-4...(just to keep it on topic) Heck, for a while there I thought that the airborne troops were carrying the largest and greatest shotgun that I had ever seen... You figure what I was seeing.

[rob_s]

This thread has been chock full of mis-applications of logic based in ignorance.

Re: manufacturer failure rates-
Even if they were willing to release this information it would be utterly useless. There would be no way of knowing the amount of use, or misuse, before failure. Not to mention that he overwhelming majority of AR buyers will barely, I ever, actually shoot them. If I make a product that will only last 1000 uses but none of my customers ever use that product more than 500 times, I'm unlikely to ever have any service calls (some AR makers seemingly base their whole business model on his fact). These combined with other issues makes the requested data wholly useless.

The quoted information from Young is another example of a failure to think thing through. Young makes hard chrome carriers. You can't stake a bard chromed key without the chrome flaking off. So hey need to come up wig an alternate assembly method and they need to reverse-logic their way into why this alternate method is "better".

Something that seems to get missed by so many hat weren't here at the beginning is hat he Chart had. History and a purpose. It was initially for my own personal use. I kept hearing "Colt is the best" and rather than pontificating on the internut that all these people are wrong I decided to try to track down why. What came out of this research was a chart for my own use for tracking the diffent features. The logic went that if Colt is he best and has the least amount of failures, and Colt does XYZ, and another brand has more failures and does not do XYZ Then logically one can deduce that XYZ has something to do with it.

[C4IGrant]

As Rob pointed out, there is some stupidity in this thread. Let's have a reality/come to Jesus moment here:

1. No AR manufacturer is going to release failure rate data.
2. If a company WAS going to release data, it would be almost worthless for two main reasons:
A. The majority of customers don't keep accurate round count data.
B. Most people that buy cheap or "gun store common" AR's don't shoot them much. So you would see Colt release failure data and it would look like their guns are always breaking while a company like DPMS would appear to be much more reliable.

For those of you that want "hard facts," look no further than the US GOVT issued TDP. The simple fact is that VERY FEW companies follow this document. If they can't live up to these standards, there really is no need to be concerned about anything else.

One last thought about .MIL SVC and ones knowledge on the M16, M4 & AR15. Unless you were an armorer in the Military with more than 4yrs of service, your .Mil background most likely has little to NO relevance in a technical discussion.

So no, flying planes, shooting the first ever M16 or killing bad guys with one doesn't mean your opinion is worth any more than anyone else's.

C4

[MistWolf]

...So no, flying planes, shooting the first ever M16 or killing bad guys with one doesn't mean your opinion is worth any more than anyone else's.

C4

I did post on the internet, last night...

[justin_247]

How did the Colt run in Nam? The troops that had 'em had to run, and run, and run, and hide at times... We can't thank those guys enough for their contributions.... Really! Whew!

Nice strawman... real nice. Maybe you should actually read the history of the weapon before you post more ignorant BS.

On top of that, this goes against completely against the intent of the thread... if you think those Colts back then had reliability problems, then there's no way in hell you could possibly justify support for any AR-profile rifle from another manufacturer.