The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[Iraqgunz]

To the trolls who have shown up acting like kids. Knock it off or leave.

[120mm]

One note:

4140 steel barrels have an extremely high incidence of being 1/9 twist, having improperly cut chambers and being overgassed.

While 4140 steel does not cause these conditions, it is much, much less likely for you to get these defects with the properly 4150 mil-spec steel.

Of course, there is an extremely high incidence of 4140 steel barrels being attached to a collection of other shit components, with the added correlation of being assembled improperly.

[usmcvet]

I understand that you are a poor college student and you need to stretch your dollars. Been there. With that said, one of the most valuable lessons I learned (when I was poor) was to either save my money and buy the best quality I could OR buy used. There is nothing wrong with buying a better quality USED gun than to buy a NEW crappy gun.

C4

The equipment exchange here on m4c is an excellent place to buy high quality gear at deep discounts. It is also a great place to trade gear that has not worked for you with folks in the same situation. You often buy or trade for brand new or nearly new gear.

I bought a pair of lowers from Grant over a year ago. I bought uppers, rails, sights and bolt carrier groups as I could afford to. I now have a great complete BCM and LMT lower and BCM upper that are excellent guns. Buy what you can as you can afford it. You don’t need to do it all over night.

Grant brings up an excellent point. A quality used gun is better than a poor quality new gun. It is probably cheaper too. The same can be said for houses, cars, trucks...... A great read is the Millionaire next door. Among other things it talks about two doctors and their spending habits’ and why one doc has money and the other is broke. It all comes down to how they choose to spend their money.

[tradja]

At the risk of ruining it, this thread is actually perfectly performing the intended function, which is to contain the nonsense.

Now that was tactical.

Those of us that do not wish to engage in the foolishness would probably be better served by ignoring it.

One thing I can contribute to this forum is my past experience with my parts AR, with the hindsight perspective of later moving up to a LMT/BCM and taking some classes.

[Jake'sDad]

While not really known in the serious gun circles most people would be lucky to put 100 rounds through a gun in a year. I know of a few people who own guns the last time they shot them Clinton was in office.

^^^^^ This.

It's the same reason certain mass produced 1911's are the darling of gunshop and internet commandos, who've never fired more than a few hundred rounds of 750 fps white box ball through them.

Thank you for your response and for being supportive, at least of my efforts.

I think it might help to make clear a few things. I spend 30 to 50 hours a week working on class work, which for a designer means hours and hours in front of a computer, drawing table or behind a camera. I manage a computer lab 21.5 hours a week (coinciding with the some of the above hours), 14 actually in class (a few of which also coincide with the class work hours as well) and a variable amount of time on client work stuffed in there. I am also married and have a wife and kids that require attention.

Right now I would rather spend my free time pursuing my interests, which are as varied as everyone else's, and I made the choice to purchase a carbine that was ready to go. At this point I can live without the hassle of gathering the parts, even a complete upper and lower. I graduate in May and I will be in the job market with out the income that I have as a college student so I did have bit of a time crunch to deal with as well. When I have a good paying job I will be revisiting my collection and making different decisions.

Anyway, to get back to Tradja's post, you are correct in your assumptions. This is a range gun so that I can work on improving my skills that might be called upon to protect home, although it is more likely that this will fall to my pistol. I do not anticipate a round count as high as top tier users, but as a designer I expect to spend time in harms way the way the pros do. I think that my gun will fill my needs for now, in other words "good enough for me". My dream gun is a LaRue OBR 556, but that is a ways off.

"At this point I can live without the hassle of gathering the parts, even a complete upper and lower".

Your above post took longer for you to write, (and longer for me to read), then ordering my BCM lower and upper did.

In the end, I hope that all of the information on my blog is useful to someone.

DPMS?

[elia.jon1]

Well, i have a cheap ar and i will tell yall what i have found out and what i think about it....

i will do this in pieces i'll talk about the upper and its parts then the lower and its parts....

upper: it has a cerro forge upper. i have heard many companies get the uppers from the forges and do final machining. i asked del ton about this and they said what final machining they get the uppers ready to go. my barrel is chrome lined made of 4140 made by mossberg and heavy, it has a 5.56 nato chamber. i have a triangle handguard cap and a "f" marked fsb. the fsb uses taper pins and it is parked under the fsb. my a2 hider was timed properly

bcg: i opted for a hard chrome bolt. not for any real reason but hey why not. my bolt is marked wtc, extractor has a black insert in the spring and no oring. my bolt carrier is marked wtb is pretty nicely finished was staked pretty well, but i staked it more, and also the tops of the bolt heads too. it is a sa carrier but the firing pin is shrouded(i did not know untill i saw a pic of an unshrouded one. now i do)

lower: i have a sog armory lower. it is made by jd machine but has the sog logo. i like it cuz i had an uncle(now dec.) who was sog. i have a ambi single point sling end plate, and a mil spec tube(rec. ext.). i staked the end plate to the castle nut. i have a moe stock and grip. the lpk was "current usgi manufacture" it all went together without a hitch. it drops center industries(30) simmonds(20) and colts(20) and pmags free except for one tight mag i have(center)


that is the breakdown of my delton sog-ton whatever.....i had almost the same setup before. except i had a tactical innovations lower. i traded it for a motorcycle. then i built my current one. #1 had at least 500 rounds thru it at the time of the trade. about 1 box of brass remington and the rest wolf and monarch steel cased never had 1 malfunction...


since i have #2 i like it and plan on keeping it. it has killed a few coYOTES and a few pigs, alot of paper and even more milk jugs. it has battled the 300 yd steel gong at my range and hasn't ever had a real hickup

the only malfuction out of my del-sog middy has been while bump firing and i had the hammer follow a live round home.

i have fired steel cased and brass cased from #2(sog lower) over 700 rds(would be alot more, but i buy my ammo. if someone wants to donate some i'll give my time to eat it up) and besides the bump-hickup it has been flawless

the first del ton(tac inovations lower) would shoot one ragged hole at 50yrds it was not chrome lined, just chromoly steel(with rest)

the second(del-sog) shoots almost as good better than or equal to 1/2 inch at 50 yards (with rest)

both of these guns are 1 in 9 twist but i wanted that cuz i shoot 55grain

i am not saying it is as good or better than a colt noveske whatever list guns, and i havn't really stressed it too hard. i will more but this current gun is...

400 for upper
100 for lower
60 for lpk
40 for used colt carry handle
100 for milspec tube, grtip and moe(was less but for math reasons)

i have a 700 dollar gun that.....
shoots moa
shoots cheap ammo
works with old surplus mags with green followers
is only short of "mil spec" with mpi/hp and 4140

it might not be a fighting gun for some of yall but the things works..

i keep it clean, after i shoot i usually clean

bottom line. i got a pretty good deal. i like the middy. it is closer to "mil spec" than alot of guns i've seen on the range. if your in east texas and want to shoot it bring yours and some ammo and i'll let you


i know 700 rds isn't alot but i've been busy, i cant shoot where i live(got a new house in the city limits) and i trust the damn thing.....


i'll add why do people not want to stake the end plate? its so easy but i cant get people to do it. even waving a auto punch while i offer to do it for them they say no. they dont want to

[Ric_Knight]

Well, i have a cheap ar and i will tell yall what i have found out and what i think about it....

i will do this in pieces i'll talk about the upper and its parts then the lower and its parts....

upper: it has a cerro forge upper. i have heard many companies get the uppers from the forges and do final machining. i asked del ton about this and they said what final machining they get the uppers ready to go. my barrel is chrome lined made of 4140 made by mossberg and heavy, it has a 5.56 nato chamber. i have a triangle handguard cap and a "f" marked fsb. the fsb uses taper pins and it is parked under the fsb. my a2 hider was timed properly

bcg: i opted for a hard chrome bolt. not for any real reason but hey why not. my bolt is marked wtc, extractor has a black insert in the spring and no oring. my bolt carrier is marked wtb is pretty nicely finished was staked pretty well, but i staked it more, and also the tops of the bolt heads too. it is a sa carrier but the firing pin is shrouded(i did not know untill i saw a pic of an unshrouded one. now i do)

lower: i have a sog armory lower. it is made by jd machine but has the sog logo. i like it cuz i had an uncle(now dec.) who was sog. i have a ambi single point sling end plate, and a mil spec tube(rec. ext.). i staked the end plate to the castle nut. i have a moe stock and grip. the lpk was "current usgi manufacture" it all went together without a hitch. it drops center industries(30) simmonds(20) and colts(20) and pmags free except for one tight mag i have(center)


that is the breakdown of my delton sog-ton whatever.....i had almost the same setup before. except i had a tactical innovations lower. i traded it for a motorcycle. then i built my current one. #1 had at least 500 rounds thru it at the time of the trade. about 1 box of brass remington and the rest wolf and monarch steel cased never had 1 malfunction...


since i have #2 i like it and plan on keeping it. it has killed a few coYOTES and a few pigs, alot of paper and even more milk jugs. it has battled the 300 yd steel gong at my range and hasn't ever had a real hickup

the only malfuction out of my del-sog middy has been while bump firing and i had the hammer follow a live round home.

i have fired steel cased and brass cased from #2(sog lower) over 700 rds(would be alot more, but i buy my ammo. if someone wants to donate some i'll give my time to eat it up) and besides the bump-hickup it has been flawless

the first del ton(tac inovations lower) would shoot one ragged hole at 50yrds it was not chrome lined, just chromoly steel(with rest)

the second(del-sog) shoots almost as good better than or equal to 1/2 inch at 50 yards (with rest)

both of these guns are 1 in 9 twist but i wanted that cuz i shoot 55grain

i am not saying it is as good or better than a colt noveske whatever list guns, and i havn't really stressed it too hard. i will more but this current gun is...

400 for upper
100 for lower
60 for lpk
40 for used colt carry handle
100 for milspec tube, grtip and moe(was less but for math reasons)

i have a 700 dollar gun that.....
shoots moa
shoots cheap ammo
works with old surplus mags with green followers
is only short of "mil spec" with mpi/hp and 4140

it might not be a fighting gun for some of yall but the things works..

i keep it clean, after i shoot i usually clean

bottom line. i got a pretty good deal. i like the middy. it is closer to "mil spec" than alot of guns i've seen on the range. if your in east texas and want to shoot it bring yours and some ammo and i'll let you


i know 700 rds isn't alot but i've been busy, i cant shoot where i live(got a new house in the city limits) and i trust the damn thing.....


i'll add why do people not want to stake the end plate? its so easy but i cant get people to do it. even waving a auto punch while i offer to do it for them they say no. they dont want to

Thanks. Please keep in touch and share info as to how it holds up as your round count grows.

[djegators]

At the risk of ruining it, this thread is actually perfectly performing the intended function, which is to contain the nonsense.

Those of us that do not wish to engage in the foolishness would probably be better served by ignoring it.

Good point, thanks.

[Belmont31R]

Shooting MOA with cheap walmart ammo and a carry handle sight?



How many round groups is that?




And a "current usgi manufacture" LPK? So did you get a 3rd burst or full auto?

[elia.jon1]

Shooting MOA with cheap walmart ammo and a carry handle sight?



How many round groups is that?




And a "current usgi manufacture" LPK? So did you get a 3rd burst or full auto?

5 rd group

cheap academy ammo

and that quote about the lpk was how they are sold thru bcm, model 1, cmmg, del ton...its most likely dpms...dont be a jerk it was in quotes for a reason