The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[smokey0118]

thats a Mediocre group at best...

ehh for 100 yds with an ar, i'll take it. the bolt guns put up much tighter groups, but that's to be expected.

[C4IGrant]

this will blow your mind, 100 yd group from a 100% reliable cheap build that's not top tier....
tactical innovations lower, del-ton heavy midlength upper 1/9 twist chrome lined, bcm bcg, yhm diamond free float tube, timney 4# skeleton, red head epic scope with red-head see-through rings(quicker and easier than getting a riser or paying big loot for larue stuff). I've shot 500+ each trip on various trips to the range shooting wolf, walmart's tul-ammo, hornady, ati 62 gr, various handloads, and the list goes on never experiencing any malfunction.

the del-ton upper from the factory had a very loose barrel nut, but is unchanged except for adding the new handguard and the bcg.

Oh dude, there is so much fail in your post that I am not sure where to begin.

Four round groups are WORTHLESS. Shoot 10rd groups and get back to us.


C4

[smokey0118]

Oh dude, there is so much fail in your post that I am not sure where to begin.

Four round groups are WORTHLESS. Shoot 10rd groups and get back to us.


C4

yes, that is clearly true. i've never seen anyone compare accuracy of rifles in 3 or 5 shot groups in magazines, books or anywhere before. good argument. oooorrrr, you could say that it's possible for someone to build a cheap rifle that's both accurate and reliable if they put in some extra work themselves. it's like if you bought lumber and built a chair instead of just buying the assembled chair for more money. sure you may have to polish a part here, replace a part there, but in the end you can spend less money if you're on a budget and still have something decent.

For just observed performance, i've given the facts that my build has never had a jam with various types of ammo and is capable of decent accuracy(largely helped by the tension adjustment screw in the tactical innovations lower that puts pressure on the rear lug much like an accuwedge would). i've run it through idpa just fine against other people with les baers and bcm's, but it really had no impact on my performance vs. theirs. What are you claiming your touted rifles will do that this build hasn't already?

[Madball13]

What are you claiming your touted rifles will do that this build hasn't already?

Most likely nothing. If you are confident that your gun will go bang every time you need it to, then congratulations you feel the same way about your gun that we feel about ours.

The only real difference is i know for a fact my gun is built and tested to spec.

[Raven Armament]

Oh dude, there is so much fail in your post that I am not sure where to begin.

Four round groups are WORTHLESS. Shoot 10rd groups and get back to us.

C4

That is a 10 shot group. Only 4 holes.

yes, that is clearly true. i've never seen anyone compare accuracy of rifles in 3 or 5 shot groups in magazines, books or anywhere before. good argument. oooorrrr, you could say that it's possible for someone to build a cheap rifle that's both accurate and reliable if they put in some extra work themselves.

Just about every gun magazine has test gun articles. They will indicated what round count the group is shot for record. Usually it's something like "average of 3 5-shot groups at 100y from benchrest". Accuracy and reliable are relative. Accuracy is pretty decent, but 4 rounds is just getting started and remains unproven. Reliability is measured in thousands of rounds.

is capable of decent accuracy(largely helped by the tension adjustment screw in the tactical innovations lower that puts pressure on the rear lug much like an accuwedge would).

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with accuracy.

What are you claiming your touted rifles will do that this build hasn't already?

Again, don't compare at 1-2 cases of ammo. Talk to me when you've run 10-15 cases through your gun in a few months.

This is also the dividing line between a fun weapon and a serious weapon. If I were going to shoot casual 3 gun locally and didn't know if I'd like it, I would probably start off with a cheap gun that is OK accurate and should be a reasonable reliable gun that can shoot a few hundred rounds per session without issue. This is where DelTon comes in.

If I were going to use the weapon for home defense, duty use, ie actually might be shooting a person or persons intent on killing me, my family, or someone else, I want a rock solid weapon that runs like the Energizer bunny. This is where Colt, Novekse, BCM, LWRC, etc come in.

If you are happy with your purchase for your intended use, I'm happy for you.

[smokey0118]

Most likely nothing. If you are confident that your gun will go bang every time you need it to, then congratulations you feel the same way about your gun that we feel about ours.

The only real difference is i know for a fact my gun is built and tested to spec.

agreed. i'd just add in there that anything that would take away from the reliability or accuracy of my build was passed by in favor or something i could either work to fix, or replace(such as the bcg to ensure it was properly staked with the extractor upgrade.). Essentially what i sacrificed was absolute peace of mind and i got something less-expensive with, consequently, less quality controls and manufacturing steps right out of the box.

But the ar design is so friggin simple, if anything is messed up, you can alter or replace it to "bring it back to spec". If i had the money, i'd get a les baer for sure, but since i don't i'm kind've forced to spend less money, but put more time in to the build to make sure it's something reliable and accurate. It moves quality control from the factory to your home...if you understand that, then you can still end up with a quality rifle for less money...is it a colt out of the box? hells no, but for a lot less money and a lot more out of the box time invested, it's close enough for what i need.

[smokey0118]

That is a 10 shot group. Only 4 holes.


Just about every gun magazine has test gun articles. They will indicated what round count the group is shot for record. Usually it's something like "average of 3 5-shot groups at 100y from benchrest". Accuracy and reliable are relative. Accuracy is pretty decent, but 4 rounds is just getting started and remains unproven. Reliability is measured in thousands of rounds.


Sorry, but that has nothing to do with accuracy.


Again, don't compare at 1-2 cases of ammo. Talk to me when you've run 10-15 cases through your gun in a few months.

This is also the dividing line between a fun weapon and a serious weapon. If I were going to shoot casual 3 gun locally and didn't know if I'd like it, I would probably start off with a cheap gun that is OK accurate and should be a reasonable reliable gun that can shoot a few hundred rounds per session without issue. This is where DelTon comes in.

If I were going to use the weapon for home defense, duty use, ie actually might be shooting a person or persons intent on killing me, my family, or someone else, I want a rock solid weapon that runs like the Energizer bunny. This is where Colt, Novekse, BCM, LWRC, etc come in.

If you are happy with your purchase for your intended use, I'm happy for you.

i agree with what you've written(with one exception) and respect the tone in which you've replied. This build has had thousands of shots down the barrel, with multiple days of 500+ at a time at various shoots. If it starts slowing down, i throw some more lube in to keep the bcg wet and it keeps on chugging along. The importance of the tension adjustment screw is that, because it's a cheap upper, the fit between the del-ton and the tactical innovations isn't rock solid and there is some slop that would shift the upper left or right(not much, but some). The wedge under the rear lug essentially eliminates all of the slop from the imperfect fit(part of the reason i invested more in the lower instead of just going with an oly or something cheaper). Once everything is tight, i'd imagine that would go a long way towards consistency. same with the yhm tube so i don't have to worry as much about uneven pressure up front from shot to shot.

[6933]

Play between the upper and lower has no effect on accuracy. That is why the Accuwedge is worthless.

[justin_247]

i agree with what you've written(with one exception) and respect the tone in which you've replied. This build has had thousands of shots down the barrel, with multiple days of 500+ at a time at various shoots. If it starts slowing down, i throw some more lube in to keep the bcg wet and it keeps on chugging along. The importance of the tension adjustment screw is that, because it's a cheap upper, the fit between the del-ton and the tactical innovations isn't rock solid and there is some slop that would shift the upper left or right(not much, but some). The wedge under the rear lug essentially eliminates all of the slop from the imperfect fit(part of the reason i invested more in the lower instead of just going with an oly or something cheaper). Once everything is tight, i'd imagine that would go a long way towards consistency. same with the yhm tube so i don't have to worry as much about uneven pressure up front from shot to shot.

"Slop" between the upper and lower has absolutely no impact on accuracy. Your barrel, bolt, carrier group, optics, and sights aren't attached to the lower receiver, so I don't really understand why people keep saying that by eliminating this "slop" you're somehow improving the accuracy...

[justin_247]

P.S. Your photos are excessively large and annoying. Please resize them appropriately.