The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[C4IGrant]

yes, that is clearly true. i've never seen anyone compare accuracy of rifles in 3 or 5 shot groups in magazines, books or anywhere before. good argument. oooorrrr, you could say that it's possible for someone to build a cheap rifle that's both accurate and reliable if they put in some extra work themselves. it's like if you bought lumber and built a chair instead of just buying the assembled chair for more money. sure you may have to polish a part here, replace a part there, but in the end you can spend less money if you're on a budget and still have something decent.

Cheap rifles typically have some form of a .223 chamber (or Wylde) so they usually do shoot well. It really isn't about that though. It is about reliability of the weapon.

Buying cheap parts MAY work out for you and may not. The odds are stacked up against you that if you run the weapon hard (training classes and such) that you will either break a components or the weap will have another issue.

Everyones definition of "decent" is different. What works for you and your needs might not work for me.

M4C is full of people that run their weapons hard via training classes or carry a weapon for their job (LE, MIL, ETC). Your build just wouldn't work for them.

For just observed performance, i've given the facts that my build has never had a jam with various types of ammo and is capable of decent accuracy(largely helped by the tension adjustment screw in the tactical innovations lower that puts pressure on the rear lug much like an accuwedge would). i've run it through idpa just fine against other people with les baers and bcm's, but it really had no impact on my performance vs. theirs. What are you claiming your touted rifles will do that this build hasn't already?

JAM is what you put on toast. It is called a M A L F U N C T I O N.

The play between upper and lower receivers really doesn't matter. It is an old wives tales that things like tensioning screws and accuwedges do anything.

I am not touting any rifles (FYI).


C4

[120mm]

your opinions are excessively large and annoying. Please resize them appropriately

You know how I know that you haven't run your carbine hard? That grip pod thingy you have your carbine resting on is made of paper mache'. If you really used your carbine for anything serious, it would be broken off by now.

I'm not really interested in how someone's plinker shoots. This is not www.plinker.net or www.fourshotgroup.net.

[Inuvik]

yes, that is clearly true. i've never seen anyone compare accuracy of rifles in 3 or 5 shot groups in magazines, books or anywhere before. good argument.

You might want to check out some of Molon's write-ups in the Reloading and Ammunition section of the site. He has some very clear and scientific explanations of why a 10 shot group is a much better gauge of accuracy.

[Failure2Stop]

your opinions are excessively large and annoying. Please resize them appropriately

The attitude of this thread has turned decidedly hostile.
If it continues, I will edit the offending parties out of the thread and hand out infractions.
State facts, do not parrot flawed logic.

This applies to all participants in this thread.
Be civil or you will be gone.

[11B101ABN]

Ma, this thread went decidedly south.

[stifled]

smokey0118,

I think a lot of the perceived hostility towards you simply comes from the fact that the people you're talking to have had this same conversation too many times to count. I think you do understand what people are saying by one of your posts on the last page.

I have a Stag Arms AR-15 that has worked quite well for about 8k rounds. That said, after discovering this site and doing a lot of legwork, I decided I didn't want to trust the Stag with my life. Now my primary home defense gun is a Noveske Light Recce with a few minor upgrades. I now practice primarily with it and a BCM I put together. They have the same number of malfunctions my Stag has (that is, 0), but I know they were both assembled and inspected properly and so have more confidence in them.

It sounds like DelTon is getting their act together, but if I received an AR with a loose barrel nut the first thing I'd be wondering is what else was overlooked--maybe not on my rifle, but all the other ones leaving their assembly line.

[M4arc]

i agree with what you've written(with one exception) and respect the tone in which you've replied. This build has had thousands of shots down the barrel, with multiple days of 500+ at a time at various shoots. If it starts slowing down, i throw some more lube in to keep the bcg wet and it keeps on chugging along. The importance of the tension adjustment screw is that, because it's a cheap upper, the fit between the del-ton and the tactical innovations isn't rock solid and there is some slop that would shift the upper left or right(not much, but some). The wedge under the rear lug essentially eliminates all of the slop from the imperfect fit(part of the reason i invested more in the lower instead of just going with an oly or something cheaper). Once everything is tight, i'd imagine that would go a long way towards consistency. same with the yhm tube so i don't have to worry as much about uneven pressure up front from shot to shot.

Bro, I hate to say this but this post really proves how little you know and how much time you spend bench shooting. There's nothing wrong with that but that's not what this thread (or this forum) is about.

I highly recommend you spend some more time reading and learning than continuing to post in this thread. No attitude, not looking down you, just trying to steer you in the right direction is all.

You can ask C4iGrant, Shivan, Mark5pt56 or VA_Dinger about my "mutt" build that was stone reliable and made it through several classes but we all know, myself included, that I could have saved a lot of time, effort, tinkering and probably even a little money by purchasing a Colt or other top tier AR instead. Live and learn. That's what this thread is about. Instead of getting all butthurt just kick back and learn from others.

Nobody is saying that you're an idiot because you didn't know what you didn't know. Read, learn and the next time you want to purchase or build an AR you'll have more information at your disposal. That's what it's about.

[Safetyhit]

If i'm wrong, i'm wrong and i'll admit it and move on....but i tend to have a hard time just ignoring when someone's being a dick to me(not saying you....just in general).

Buddy, you posted a friggin 4 shot group to somehow indicate how capable your firearm is. Not only was the gesture completely ineffective as well as irrelevant, it could have been justification for all out ridicule.

I'd consider yourself fortunate to have escaped that fate and move on.

[Madball13]

.................................

[GLOCKMASTER]

The attitude of this thread has turned decidedly hostile.
If it continues, I will edit the offending parties out of the thread and hand out infractions.
State facts, do not parrot flawed logic.

This applies to all participants in this thread.
Be civil or you will be gone.

Just in case some of you missed F2S post just a few up from yours, then I suggest you read it again.

THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING!!!