Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands

[AllAmerican]

I think maybe this should be a stickey, it would answer a lot of newbies questions like me, and explain a lot about how this forum works and how it compares civily with other sites, just a suggestion. This site is above and beyond the most civil one I belong to.....

Thanks all.

[Twosons]

Rob,

I noticed on ARF.com that DPMS states that 1:7 twist barrels, Mil-spec receiver extensions and H buffers are all available as options. Should it be time to update your list?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=30&t=157433

[C4IGrant]

Rob,

I noticed on ARF.com that DPMS states that 1:7 twist barrels, Mil-spec receiver extensions and H buffers are all available as options. Should it be time to update your list?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=30&t=157433

Actually, no, it is NOT time to update the list. What DPMS is doing is the playing the shell game as they realize they do not line up very well against the TDP. If you read carefully in that thread they say that 1/7 twists barrels are OPTIONAL (not standard). If you look at DPMS's website and click on a gun, you will notice that the standard barrel steel is 4140 and the twist rate is 1/9. http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=1049

Could you call them up and order everything custom? Yes you probably could. You could most likely do that with any company. The purpose of the chart is to show what is commonly found at your local gun store and what the average consumer is going to get.

So it is really a smoke and mirrors game that DPMS is playing and people should look down on this type BS.


C4

[Twosons]

Actually, no, it is NOT time to update the list. What DPMS is doing is the playing the shell game as they realize they do not line up very well against the TDP. If you read carefully in that thread they say that 1/7 twists barrels are OPTIONAL (not standard). If you look at DPMS's website and click on a gun, you will notice that the standard barrel steel is 4140 and the twist rate is 1/9. http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=1049

Could you call them up and order everything custom? Yes you probably could. You could most likely do that with any company. The purpose of the chart is to show what is commonly found at your local gun store and what the average consumer is going to get.

So it is really a smoke and mirrors game that DPMS is playing and people should look down on this type BS.


C4

Grant,

I don't want to get into a peeing contest, but if you look at my post above, I mentioned that these items are optional. The chart has provisions for optional items. To not include them on the chart as optional items when they are available options would, to me at least, be intellectually dishonest. I am DPMS neutral, but I thought the point was to have an accurate chart.

[C4IGrant]

Grant,

I don't want to get into a peeing contest, but if you look at my post above, I mentioned that these items are optional. The chart has provisions for optional items. To not include them on the chart as optional items when they are available options would, to me at least, be intellectually dishonest. I am DPMS neutral, but I thought the point was to have an accurate chart.

When you click on the link I provided to a DPMS rifle and you click on the "build this weapon" button, do you see anywhere that allows you to choose twist rates or barrel steel? I sure don't.

CMMG on the other hand has pull downs that let you choose the twist rate and such. This is why they get the option blocks checked in the chart. Again, DPMS likes to say that they offer XYZ, but they do not make it easy for the consumer to change things out. They much prefer you just buy a 4140 1/9 twist barrel. I would NOT put optional next to items that DPMS does not make readily available.


C4

[Twosons]

1-800-578-3767

Problem solved. Like I said, they are options.

[C4IGrant]

1-800-578-3767

Problem solved. Like I said, they are options.

LOL, no not really. Because if the person NEVER has any idea that there IS even an option, they are never even going to know what to ask for.

Let's also be honest about how the majority of DPMS AR's are sold. They are purchased by dealers via Distr.'s and then sold in gun shops. Do you think that the Distr.'s order them with 4150 steel, H buffers and 1/7 twist?? The answer is no, they don't. So the ONLY thing the consumer ever sees from DPMS is 4140, 1/9 twist, carbine buffer with a commercial RE. That is why DPMS does not deserve any "options" checked next to their name on the chart.

Another thing to consider about "options" that companies offer from their standard line. It might be six months before you would ever see the mil-spec options you custom ordered from them. Pass.



C4

[Twosons]

LOL, no not really. Because if the person NEVER has any idea that there IS even an option, they are never even going to know what to ask for.

Let's also be honest about how the majority of DPMS AR's are sold. They are purchased by dealers via Distr.'s and then sold in gun shops. Do you think that the Distr.'s order them with 4150 steel, H buffers and 1/7 twist?? The answer is no, they don't. So the ONLY thing the consumer ever sees from DPMS is 4140, 1/9 twist, carbine buffer with a commercial RE. That is why DPMS does not deserve any "options" checked next to their name on the chart.

Another thing to consider about "options" that companies offer from their standard line. It might be six months before you would ever see the mil-spec options you custom ordered from them. Pass.



C4

I'm not saying you should order one. I just see "the chart" flaunted everywhere. Accuracy should be paramount. In my opinion, this is one area where bias is overriding accuracy. Like I said, I don't want to battle so we can agree to disagree. Work for you?

[jmart]

LOL, no not really. Because if the person NEVER has any idea that there IS even an option, they are never even going to know what to ask for.

C4

But seeing as how the person who walks into the gun store is carrying the chart, and it's because of the chart that he's an informed, educated buyer, then he ought to be able to ask gun shop Joe to special order him a DPMS with all of the desirable features.

On the other hand, if new gun buyer is ignorant of the chart and walks in to Joe's Gun Shop and buys whatever is on the rack, then the chart had no affect, so the inclusion or exclusion of the note, along with every other "x" on the chart, was irrelevant.

Another thing to consider about "options" that companies offer from their standard line. It might be six months before you would ever see the mil-spec options you custom ordered from them. Pass.

Fair point, this may be the case. But you never know unless you ask.

[C4IGrant]

I'm not saying you should order one. I just see "the chart" flaunted everywhere. Accuracy should be paramount. In my opinion, this is one area where bias is overriding accuracy. Like I said, I don't want to battle so we can agree to disagree. Work for you?

I do not think the chart is "flaunted" anywhere. It is brought up a lot though and has opened the eyes of a good many shooters (which is a good thing).

What matters is how the weapon is being purchased and seen by the bulk of the consumer market. I can just about guarantee that you will never find a DPMS with all the TDP following specs in your average gun shop.

It is false advertising to let people believe that mil-standard options are easily obtainable on DPMS AR's. This is why they should never get the "option" boxes checked on the chart.


C4