SHTF Fighting Gun(s): Getting Thoughts on Paper - Feedback Welcome

[Moose-Knuckle]

An AR and a G17. It's hard to go wrong with BCM and Glock.

I don't think it will be a lot of running and gunning. I think it will an annoying backslide in to pre refrigeration and electric lights era, perhaps highlighted by occasional riots within the inner city and remnants of the FSA rolling out my way.
There are a lot more things to worry about than Zombie hoards, some strain of flu or virus taking out huge swaths of the population because we cannot refrigerate enough vaccine to get to folks outside of the area's it would be made in. A major crop failure rolling through the gardens that were once the backyards of the suburbs.
I'm about knee high in ammo and have the capability and skill to make at least that much again. I however cannot make a tetanus shot.
It will be a race to get technology up and running before we have a die off.

The die off will occur long before many even realize they have need of planting a crop.

[Caduceus]

Medical care is definitely a huge concern. Clean water, sanitation, food and food storage are obviously huge more immediate issues to deal with.

To be quite honest, its more access to medications than anything. A surgeon can still operate using a boiling pot of water to sterilize, but if you cant hold still, or die of post op infection, youre still dead.

The non surgical physicians will be even more useless. Great diagnostic skills and education, limited ability to influence the course of disease.

Not to even consider the already chronically ill folks kept alive by meds.

[Freethought]

Worrying about guns when SHTF is a waste of time. Guns are pretty clear cut, especially for people on this forum who probably own at least 1 gun for these situations, if not a dozen (or more). A rifle is your first line of defense. If you are worried about an EMP, get something without batteries for an optic. If you want a pistol there are a lot of good choices, but Glock seems to come to everyone's mind first.

But seriously, we know you have a gun you will use. Do you have water? Do you have food and a way to cook it? Can you stay out of the elements and away from others? Can you keep yourself clean and do you understand basic medicine enough to keep your family alive? All these things will kill you before long before anyone normal thinks about shooting you.

Most relevant post within the thread to this point. Though I will add a specific point , to a certain degree firearms are a horses for courses issue , what may well be valid in one locale may well be sub optimal in another locale.

An example , if I'm in the Far North where I spend much of my time ( this within the designated weapons framework) I'm unlikely to choose the same weapons that I would in the lower 48. Even in the lower 48 the choices may well change with factors such as urban versus rural (mountain) environments.

And of course there is still the issue briefly touched by Cokie and others , is the situation of a "survival" nature , is it purely defensive? If the latter is the likely primary aggressor two legged with bad intent? A 4 legged ursine or ungulate in a bad mood?

[Freethought]

Really? Dang I didn't know that. So, even for those of us whose daddy wasn't a butcher, butchering a deer doesn't cross deck at all?

I read this thread often, don't post much, but dang guy, these are the folks who are planning to be in the surviving percentage.

You may have missed his point. A hypothetical question , do you have the necessary skills beyond the butchering skills? I.E. the necessary meat preservation skills , because during the summer months you'll find those skills to be of crucial necessity even in the locale where I spend a goodly portion of my time.

Even in Larsens Bay you're not preserving a moose , deer , bear etc in the summer months without the aforementioned skills , which of course brings forth the issue of how you hide the telltale traces of such tasks.

Know what feeds you much of the year in the Far North? A trotline ,net or fishtrap , a trapline and/or a .22 rifle.

[Labayu]

SHTF when the grocery stores run out of food, lol

Why worry about a population that will die of exposure, dehydration and/or eventually starvation within 21 days?

Invasion by a foreign power? If my brothers fail to stop whatever band of foreign villains actually succeeded at invading the USA then all hope would be lost as no civilian mob would stand a chance against such a formidable force.

I'd try to find my way to the border of a country not yet invaded and sneak across with my family.

That means that a SHTF Rifle for me would need to be small enough to hide in my refugee gear and preferably of a caliber used either by our forces or an invader's force.

Anyone know where I could find an M4 upper chambered in 5.8×42mm?

[Freethought]

SHTF when the grocery stores run out of food, lol

Why worry about a population that will die of exposure, dehydration and/or eventually starvation within 21 days?

Invasion by a foreign power? If my brothers fail to stop whatever band of foreign villains actually succeeded at invading the USA then all hope would be lost as no civilian mob would stand a chance against such a formidable force.

I'd try to find my way to the border of a country not yet invaded and sneak across with my family.

That means that a SHTF Rifle for me would need to be small enough to hide in my refugee gear and preferably of a caliber used either by our forces or an invader's force.

Anyone know where I could find an M4 upper chambered in 5.8×42mm?

I would agree , within the context of the areas that are urban and/or within range of those areas. Folks who are further out and/or relatively isolated may well last quite a bit longer. Those with a degree of "primitive" skills and a degree of experience surviving a subsistence lifestyle will no doubt be a great deal better off.

[SteveS]

We are in SHTF right now. The vast majority are just ignorant to anything other that TV and sports all is well. The threat is from the federal and state governments and its employees.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

Let's be honest if you live in a city you're probably f***** anyways. Not everyone, but a good percentage. Everyone's plan is "to go to the hills" where are these mysterious hills that everyone is going to, but no one else will be there?

I live in these hills. And depending on how nicely you ask, I may or may not let you shack up in my barn when you come knocking.

IMHO, you may need overwhelming firepower to fight your way out of the city (if you live in a major metro area) but that is the only time. For anyone living in a smaller city or rural area, you need a load easy to move under. I know it looks bad-ass to be kitted out with a plate carrier, 8 magazines, rifle, pistol, fighting knife, utility knife, pocket knife, and tomahawk. After a day of wearing it, you'll throw it over the back of the chair where it will stay. I have spent days on end humping gear and it sucks.

Keep it light weight. An AR with 1-4 and a warbelt with side arm, extra mag or two, knife, and a utility pouch. Same principles are used for concealed carry. A full size 1911 is great for a firefight but not worth a shit if you never carry it because it is heavy and uncomfortable. You will be moving around your property tending animals, firewood, or performing chores. Trying doing that while wearing a plate carrier!

[Turnkey11]

We are in SHTF right now. The vast majority are just ignorant to anything other that TV and sports all is well. The threat is from the federal and state governments and its employees.

I guess that places a lot of us in your crosshairs...

[Labayu]

I guess that places a lot of us in your crosshairs...

Yeah, no kidding.

I wonder if people who feel that way ever consider that people like us are their neighbors and equally at the mercy of our employers.