SBR refusal?

[JEL458]

Happen to have a link to an example of the ATF requesting the schedule A?

My paperwork was recently returned due to not including the Schedule A. I emailed the examiner a pdf copy and was then approved that day.

[vinsonr]

Roger, good to know. At least they are quick to follow up after you submit updated paperwork, etc.

[d90king]

negative... there's assloads of evidence to support the ATF doesn't actually really give a shit if you put a 10.5 upper on a lower registered as a 12.5, to the point that they explicitly state that they don't care if you do exactly that, temporarily.. and that if you want to make a permanent change to barrel length, all they ask is that you send them notification.

but i've never seen anything that offers a penalty of any sort for not notifying them... everywhere i've seen the request stated, it's been in the form of exactly that- a request that they be notified.

the best thing to do is simply fill out the form for whatever length you actually plan to have.. 10, 11, 12, 14, whatever... and if you change your mind later, just notify them.

It was my understanding that if you are going to a shorter barrel than what was registered that you were required to notify that ATF and update your form to the shorter barrel... I guess it was bad information if you are saying that there is no need to do so...


So your saying that if you have a 14.5 on your paperwork and go to a 10.5 there are no issues in doing so?

[d90king]

Actually i heard different...you can own a sbr upper, but if you have anything in your home that it can be mated to is Federal violation (unless registered of course). Even if you just want to "see what it looks like" is ILLEGAL. Thats what i read, so ya you can have all the uppers you want, but if you have just ONE lower....prison time.Thats what i read

That I believe is what they deem constructive intent or something along those lines... Yes, it is my understanding that it is bad ju ju to have a SBR upper in your home if you don't have a registered lower... Hence the reason for the stamp to begin with.

[BCmJUnKie]

Oh okay, i am unsure either way, I am learning more and more the further this thread goes. Ill see if i can find the magazine i read that in and ill post it up.

[vinsonr]

The ATF requires you to notify them with a letter if you permanently alter the configuration of your SBR with respect to the barrel length. A temporary change (who is ever going to know?) is ok.

Vince

[bkb0000]

Technically thats true... Every lower with a SBR upper on it has to have a stamp and each stamp is dedicated to each lower, so multiple stamps would be needed if you want multiple rifles... So technically each "rifle" needs a stamp considering that it is only a rifle when a lower and upper are united... You can have as many uppers as you want but they can only go on your registered lowers.

Thats why its good to start with a 10.5 so you have greater flexibility for future uppers ... If you register a 12.5 you cant go shorter and put a 10.5 etc on it without going through the headache again...


Pretty sure thats the correct technicalities...

The ATF requires you to notify them with a letter if you permanently alter the configuration of your SBR with respect to the barrel length. A temporary change (who is ever going to know?) is ok.

Vince

and there's no definition for "temporary." could be 40 years. they also don't send you an updated form 1 when you notify them. they don't care.

[Don Robison]

and there's no definition for "temporary." could be 40 years. they also don't send you an updated form 1 when you notify them. they don't care.

and when you do send them notification it may take them a couple of years to reply that they updated their database.
It took them 26 months to acknowledge my change of address.

[vinsonr]

So your saying that if you have a 14.5 on your paperwork and go to a 10.5 there are no issues in doing so?

This is not true by the way. One SBR is not 'more' NFA than another. They are all the same, thus any NFA registered weapon can have any length of barrel you want on it and like bkb0000 and donr101395 said there is no definition of temporary nor would anyone ever know how long the 'other' length barrel has been on the rifle.

The entire law has always been difficult to interpret and thus is a poor law. Maybe I'll become a senator one day and fix it up.

[BCmJUnKie]

Okay so i found the magazine i read my earlier info. in...BLACK GUNS 2011. The column writer is Jeremy D.Clough, He goes through and documents the entire process... he states and i quote "As another word of warning, its worth noting that with a platform as modular as the AR15, "manufacturing" an SBR is as simple as pulling two pins and putting a short upper on your regular lower reciever. If you do that,even if you just want to see what one would look like on your rifle, you've just manufactured a class III weapon,and you're in violation of federal law. Similarily,if you if you possess an upper with a barrel shorter than 16",and you have a lower that it is physically possible for it to be assembled on, but which is NOT a registered SBR, you're in violation. Likewise,if you have a pistoland a shoulder stock that fits it-such as a stock for a glock-you're breaking the law. The same goes for vertical foregrips on handguns,such as putting a GriPod or Crimson Trace MVF on an AR pistol". And it goes on to tell how the same rules apply for individual LEO's and "Although the legal description for an SBR doesnt include the same exact language, the statue that defines a machinegun (which,like the SBR, is a class III weapon), includes any combination of parts that can be assembled to create one." " I expect the same reasoning to apply to combinations of parts that can be used to create an SBR,so if you don't have a lower that the upper can legally be mated with- such as an SBR or a registered pistol lower- you shouldn't have an upper with a barrel less than 16''. Again, I want to make it clear I wasnt saying anyone was wrong...i just heard two different things and wanted to let you guys know as well.