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Thread: "Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!"

  1. #1
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    "Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!"

    Lately there seem to be quite a few posts from people that are new to the AR in general, or new to this site in particular, that are starting to educate themselves and are feeling a bit of buyer's remorse. The "damn, I bought a $900 Bushmaster when I could have had an LMT for $1k" feeling is nothing new as people begin to educate themselves, and is not unique to the firearms enthusiast.

    First of all, it's important to note that the below only really applies to guns intended for defensive, or offensive, purposes. If you really only ever intended your rifle as a plinker there isn't much need to do any of the below because the worst thing that will ever happen if your rifle fails to function will be that it will end your day at the range and several coke-cans will be spared that day. If, however, you envision ever needing to use this rifle for any kind of so called "hard use", then you owe it to yourself to at least do the following.

    I believe that "The Chart" is having a negative impact in this regard. People are coming here and finding out that the gun they bought is sitting on the middle-to-right-side of the chart and are wondering if they made a bad choice. The answer is "probably not".

    I have noticed quite a few threads in which Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag, etc. owners are starting to ask what they should do to their rifle to try to "move it to the left" on the chart. Some are even asking if they need to scrap their rifle entirely and buy a new one from the left side of the chart. The answer is "probably not".


    Whether you have had the carbine for years with thousands of "trouble free" rounds through it (real-world rounds, not internet rounds) or you just bought the rifle, have hardly fired it, but are already starting to feel that buyer's remorse, don't fret. There are some very basic things you can do to improve your carbine and ensure better reliability.

    1) Check the carrier key for proper staking. How do you know if it's properly staked? Go here and educate yourself. If yours doesn't look right, follow the instructions to correct it or send it out to have someone else correct it.

    2) Check the extractor spring and insert to insure that the insert is black. Go here to learn about extractor inserts, springs, and O-rings. This is something anyone can install themselves.

    3) Check the receiver extension end-plate for proper staking. How do you know if it's properly staked? Go here and educate yourself. If yours doesn't look right, follow the instructions to correct it or send it out to have someone else correct it.

    4) Buy an "H" buffer if your carbine doesn't have it. Go here to learn why. Go here to see the different kinds of buffers. This is something anyone can install themselves.

    5) Buy a properly tested, staked, constructed bolt carrier group (BCG) with the proper extractor insert. The bolt itself should be Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI), Shot Peened, and Proof Fired. You can buy a top quality BCG from Bravo Company, G&R Tactical or LMT for around $130. You can either change out to this BCG right away, or use the one that came with your rifle until it breaks and then switch it out. The choice is yours.

    Hopefully the above is helpful. Obviously, if you have that "thousands of trouble free rounds" DPMS, you may feel perfectly comfortable with leaving it alone. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about, how secure YOU feel in the thought that you may use this carbine for self, family, or society defense.

  2. #2
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    Very good thread Rob_S.

    Many are panicking after learning the differences of the quality of parts when that was never the intention. The intention was just to show 'just as good as'.......isn't (or as us southerners say) 'ain't' .
    FFL/SOT armorer

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    How about using a Ned Christiansen's chamber reamer on it? And polishing the chamber, as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    How about using a Ned Christiansen's chamber reamer on it? And polishing the chamber, as well?
    The reamer should really only be used when the rifle has problems with blown primers (with NATO pressure ammo) or some weird extraction problems etc which beefed up extractors/springs/o-rings and heavier buffers don't cure. It shouldn't be used as a pre-emptive strike.

    Polishing the chamber shouldn't be required. If using a chrome lined barrel it will polish out all by itself with each round fired.
    FFL/SOT armorer

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    Basically what your saying is to keep current rifle and doing upgrades to it? I have a Stag and thinking of selling it to buy a friends LMT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    ...people that are new to the AR in general, or new to this site in particular, that are starting to educate themselves and are feeling a bit of buyer's remorse.
    How about buyer's relief?

    My semi-informed purchase of the S&W M&P 15 (later production, as it turns out) got me #1 and #3; on Tuesday I bought a spare bolt equipped with #2; and in the near future I'll do #5.

    Question about #4: How can I determine (other than asking S&W) if my M&P 15 (base model) is equipped with an H buffer? Never mind...I just checked The Chart. Sheesh.

    Good thread, rob_s, a great example of why I'm hanging out in these forums.
    KintlaLake
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    "Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense." (Robert Green Ingersoll)

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    It's posts like these that make me ask why the rest of the internet can't work like this forum. This forum is blessedly short on "I heard from this guy"-stories, and long on "I've done the research, I've thought it through, here's the deal."
    Thanks, rob.
    http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ , where Marksmanship Meets Heritage.
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    This thread NEEDED to be posted.

    Good job Rob.
    NOT in training for combat deployment.

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    Great post Rob!

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    Nicely done Rob.
    Yup, I'm a Dinosaur!

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    Quote Originally Posted by white spainard View Post
    Basically what your saying is to keep current rifle and doing upgrades to it? I have a Stag and thinking of selling it to buy a friends LMT.

    My personal opinion is that you cannot and should not put lipstick on a pig. I would make sure everything is staked properly and call it a day. If the weapon breaks or your have the chance to sell it then I would get rid of it and get something else.

    The problem with upgrading components and or adding items to make the weapon better will not be appreciated by the next buyer as they most likely won't know anything about the purpsose of the upgrades (and most likely doesn't want to pay for them).


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 09-06-07 at 12:21.

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    I think perusing this forum should be required reading before making any AR purchase.

    As one of the folks who made two "under informed" purchases of RRA rifles, I have performed many of the "fixes" mentioned above. It's not hard or expensive. I'm not done yet, but am working towards getting them where I want them to be.

    I am also not panicking about it either, nor am I having horrible nightmares about by non-MP tested RRA bolt failing at the very instant the Zombie Horde crests the hill. But I am aware of what I do and do not have, and where I'd like to be ultimately. In time, everything will be as close to how it should be as I can get it.

    But with the money spent on "fixes" and "upgrades" I easily could have purchased a Colt or LMT rifle.
    "Something could happen."
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    "Duh! That's why you need a gun!"
    -- My 9 year old son when told what the legislative aid had said in response to my question, above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    My personal opinion is that you cannot and should not put lipstick on a pig. I
    C4
    Grant you must of met my exwife.

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    I think a few stages of buyers remorse hit the new people who start reading on this forum. This can be seen by their posts.

    1. They are WRONG! my rifle is as good!
    2. Tell me about staking?
    3. Mine isnt staked right!
    4. How do I stake it right?
    5. I love you guys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    Grant you must of met my exwife.

    Shit! Beat me to it!!!

    Tack

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    Grant you must of met my exwife.
    Wow, that's HARSH!
    "Something could happen."
    -- Legislative aid to Virginia delegate David Toscano when I asked her why the delegate did not support the bill to allow concealed carry in restaurants, January 19, 2009

    "Duh! That's why you need a gun!"
    -- My 9 year old son when told what the legislative aid had said in response to my question, above.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shihan View Post
    I think a few stages of buyers remorse hit the new people who start reading on this forum. This can be seen by their posts.

    1. They are WRONG! my rifle is as good!
    2. Tell me about staking?
    3. Mine isnt staked right!
    4. How do I stake it right?
    5. I love you guys!

    6. Does Mil-Spec matter?
    7. My DPMS follows a higher spec than the TDP (what is the TDP again)?


    C4

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    6. Does Mil-Spec matter?
    7. My DPMS follows a higher spec than the TDP (what is the TDP again)?


    C4

    1. They are WRONG! my rifle is as good!
    2. Tell me about staking?
    3. Does Mil-Spec matter?
    4. My DPMS follows a higher spec than the TDP (what is the TDP again)?
    5. Mine isnt staked right!
    6. How do I stake it right?
    7. I love you guys!

    I changed the numbering and added Grants additions as the I love you guys part comes if the newbie sticks around long enough to actually listen and learn and at the end is a happy camper he was educated.

  19. #19
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    Rob and I might not see eye-to-eye if the human race depended on it, but this is a good thread. Possibly the wrong venue (preaching to the choir), but good thread.

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    I figured a thread like this was coming, as there has been a need for something like this. Well done, Rob.

    Quote Originally Posted by dubb-1 View Post
    ...this is a good thread. Possibly the wrong venue (preaching to the choir), but good thread.
    Yes, much on here may be preaching to the choir, but thanks to referrals and ads in SWAT and Shotgun News, new people are visiting the church every day. Discussions like the one in this thread will convince some to join the choir and that is a good thing. Can I get an Amen?

    (5 yard penalty for overuse of an analogy?)

    Also, presenting this info in the venues that most need it tends to go over like a fart in church.

    (sorry, the analogy again)

    Mark
    GLOCK PREFECTION

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