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Thread: MKE (AT94K/AT94P) Turkish HK Contracts...

  1. #1
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    MKE (AT94K/AT94P) Turkish HK Contracts...

    Ok, first I was unsure of which forum to post this in. They are both pistols (however MKE also makes a carbine) but I am discussing them in the context of converting them to legal carbines via 922r compliance or NFA SBRs or legal machine gun conversions. So if this actually gets moved to another forum (Handgun or NFA) it will also be linked from here.

    Second, I hope you guys appreciate the things I do for your benefit. I purchased two firearms just to make this post. Sure I needed them for the White Tile Small Arms Museum, but I'm using this post as justification so leave me to my delusions.

    As far as fit, finish and performance these aren't quite Oberndorf quality, they are more like POF (Pakistani HK contract). But that means they are still light years ahead of the best US clone on the market, not to mention $1000 cheaper in most cases. I've yet to get one to hiccup using WWB USA 9mm but I haven't done any serious testing and evaluation either. The most shooting I've so far seen is about 1000 rounds through another MKE with zero failures. In contrast I've yet to see a clone that would go 500 rounds without a failure of some kind.

    The fit and finish isn't bad, it just isn't quite German quality.

    Ok, lets' start with the carbine version (AT 94 A2) .



    Long story short, you don't want it. It has a modified magazine well to accept a proprietary 10 round only magazine. Sure you could easily modify it by going the 922r route but given that it actually costs more than the pistol versions (MSRP $1,549.00) there is no point. So we will dispense with the discussion of this model and that is why I didn't buy one.

    On to the two pistol variants, the AT94P (HK 94 style) and the AT94K (HK SP89 style). Here is what they look like right out of the box.



    Not terribly impressive looking, basically big heavy pistol version of HK SMGs missing hand guards. Along the same lines, when imported nobody was impressed with the SP89 as a pistol either. But we aren't buying them as a pistol, we are buying them for what they "can" be.

    Basically you have two pistol options, The AT94K and the AT94P and the both have a MSRP in the $1,495.00 range depending where you buy them.

    So let's look at how they break down. Here is the AT94K (the AT94P trigger group mates to the receiver with the same setup).





    Below is the AT94P.



    For those who are wondering, yes a MP5K VFG hand guard and PDW side folding stock (as well as B&T stocks for the same model) fit without any modifications whatsoever. Obviously with the short barrel, this would require registration as a AOW to add a K grip or as a SBR to add a folding stock with or without the K grip.

    Those familiar with HK guns, especially the 90 series will notice a few differences. The trigger group shelf on the receiver is unique (as well as the modification to the trigger group to fit the receiver). So that means all of your 90 series packs will NOT fit these firearms. You could however specifically modify full auto packs in semi configuration to fit. Other than the unique notch in the trigger box, the semi auto setup is more or less identical to the 90 series.

    Of extreme interest is the fact that apparently ATF permitted MKE to weld up select fire receivers to produce semi auto firearms. The modification of the push pin hole is rather obvious. Unlike those PSL rifles which were determined to be machine guns by ATF after importation, these receivers were modified PRIOR to becoming a completed firearm so there is no danger of a recall. Just interesting that it was allowed given some of ATFs rulings.

    Also unlike the 90 series, these pistols have paddle magazine releases already installed. So that saves everyone a little gunsmithing right there.

    Now here is where things get really different from the 90 series and why everyone on HKPro is so unhappy.



    Inside the receiver (to the bottom right) is a small piece of metal welded in place which prevents the use of a 90 series or full auto bolt carrier. Now technically a registered sear pack (the registered sear would have to be installed in a trigger group that would mate with the MKE receiver) should render the entire thing a legal machine gun and that receiver block should be legal to remove (much in the same way FNC receivers can be modified to accept legal sears).

    What you cannot do, not even with a legal sear is modify the receiver to accept a swing down pack as that would render the entire thing a post sample machine gun according to ATF. This is because by drilling that hole, you have made a "new" machine gun that wasn't registered prior to the 86 ban.

    And with that receiver block in mind, you can see how the bolt carrier has been modified to mate with the MKE semi series. The receiver to bolt carrier modification is identical on both pistols, except each one uses a different length carrier and recoil spring just like the original HK firearms.







    If building 922r semi autos none of this will matter, but a modification to the receiver would be necessary to install a registered sear pack and you would have to have the registered sear installed in the unique trigger group to mate with the receiver.

    As I have yet to register the AT94k I cannot show you what the completed project will look like. But with enough US parts to be 922r compliant the AT94P looks like this.



    Eventually this one will be SBR'd as well. So if you are in the market for a MP5 or MP5k semi and don't have $5k, this is probably your best option. Even with any related gunsmithing and NFA registration, they are still cheaper than most unmodified US clones and far more reliable.
    Last edited by SteyrAUG; 02-21-11 at 23:43.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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  2. #2
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    Hey There,

    First off, thanks for the post. Your timing is impectable. I was just at West Coast Armory (from whom you bought your 551 if memory serves) and they had a rifle version of this.

    Looking to build a 9mm carbine for the wife (who is noise sensitive). My plan is to chop the barrel to 10 or 12 inches, and permanently attach a sleeve into which I'll thread a 9mm can. Cans are cool (ish) in WA state but SBRs are not.

    So I have some questions for you:

    1) so the HK94P will take MP5 mags?
    2) Assuming it will take MP5 optic mounts?
    3) Is the barrel an extension or is it rifled the whole length?

    Would you go this route over a 9mm AR?

    Thanks Much!

    Damien
    Damien


    I really want to help you and I will listen to your questions, but my answer will be "get a 6920, a Glock 19, an Arsenal AK, and a Spyderco Delica. Then plant an Aimpoint tree and hope it grows".

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    Nice post, lots of good info on the MKE. I have been researching mp5 stuff for a future semi-auto sbr. My question is how much will it cost to make the pistol version 922r compliant? I would like to here some thoughts on the most economical route to a reliable mp5 style sbr. My concern is that the cost of the US made parts plus the initial MKE cost would end up close to a custom build cost.

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    Thanks for the writeup, been eyeing these for a while now, keep us posted, especially regarding the reliability of these guns, since thats whats gonna make or break my decision to purchase one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTR03 View Post
    Hey There,

    First off, thanks for the post. Your timing is impectable. I was just at West Coast Armory (from whom you bought your 551 if memory serves) and they had a rifle version of this.

    Looking to build a 9mm carbine for the wife (who is noise sensitive). My plan is to chop the barrel to 10 or 12 inches, and permanently attach a sleeve into which I'll thread a 9mm can. Cans are cool (ish) in WA state but SBRs are not.

    So I have some questions for you:

    1) so the HK94P will take MP5 mags?
    2) Assuming it will take MP5 optic mounts?
    3) Is the barrel an extension or is it rifled the whole length?

    Would you go this route over a 9mm AR?

    Thanks Much!

    Damien
    1. Both pistol versions take standard MP5 mags.
    2. Both pistol versions have the same receiver profile so any MP5 optics mount will work.
    3. 16" full rifled barrel.

    As far as MKE vs. 6450 I'd defer to the MKE simply because I find the roller lock bolt to be a smoother action and I like the MP5 magazine more than the Colt 9mm magazine. But you can't go wrong with either and price is about the same.

    I'd reconsider the permanently mounted suppressor thing, they need maintenance from time to time, not to mention cleaning barrels with the can ON is a major PITA. I'd just go with a carbine conversion of the 94P and call it good.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lloydkristmas View Post
    Thanks for the writeup, been eyeing these for a while now, keep us posted, especially regarding the reliability of these guns, since thats whats gonna make or break my decision to purchase one.

    Keep in mind MKE is a HK contract factory, so basically it is a semi auto modification of a military HK contract firearm. I just didn't want anyone to think they are "exactly like German HKs" because they are not. Again the fit and finish is very reminiscent of POF guns.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  7. #7
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    I got a bit lost - let me see if I understand correctly:

    Carbine - good but not great.
    Pistol- nice semi K clone.

    You prefer the pistol?

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