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Thread: MKE (AT94K/AT94P) Turkish HK Contracts...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phazuka View Post
    Can't figure out how someone who bashes SIG about their quality can stand to OWN a Turkish copy of the MP5. With all the garbage you guys spew about QUALITY and TIER1 manufacturers, isn't this a bit hypocritical? Why don't you just get a real MP5?

    You guys know they aren't being imported any longer, only 1 batch made it into the USA before being cut off. What about spares? HK parts will not work in them.

    You guys do know that the rifle versions cannot take high cap mags? Did you also know the lower is welded to the stock? You have to do a lot more work on these than they are even worth. Get a real HK.


    Yes, he stated up front, in the first post, that you don't want the carbine version as it's just been jacked up too much to make it into the US.

    As far as quality control, there's a big difference between how they actually work and vs. fit and finish. HK licensees like FMN (Portugal), Hellenic Arms (Greece), MKE (Turkey), and Pakistani Ordnance Factory (ummm.....Pakistan), make weapons to a certain standard of reliability that is on par with the parent weapon (Kraut), but will not be as well finished.

    I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how Cohen at SIG USA took the designs from SIG in Switzerland and basically pissed all over it.

    Let's not turn this into a another thread where we argue pointlessly about the merits and lack thereof of SIG (USA).
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Agreed.

    As it sits now, the full size MP5 is too much work to get a proper gun.

    If it came with a 3 lug factory barrel I would buy one or more.
    Why would that deter you? HK never imported a 3 lug pistol version of the 94. And if you can cut, crown and 3 lug a 94 you can do a MKE. That is exactly what I will be doing to the AT94P.

    The only appreciable difference is the MKE has the paddle mag already and the HK94 didn't.

    Cut, crown and 3 lug is not a big deal. Pretty easy gunsmithing actually. Every single transferable MP5 had it done as they all began life as HK94s.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phazuka View Post
    Can't figure out how someone who bashes SIG about their quality can stand to OWN a Turkish copy of the MP5. With all the garbage you guys spew about QUALITY and TIER1 manufacturers, isn't this a bit hypocritical? Why don't you just get a real MP5?

    You guys know they aren't being imported any longer, only 1 batch made it into the USA before being cut off. What about spares? HK parts will not work in them.

    You guys do know that the rifle versions cannot take high cap mags? Did you also know the lower is welded to the stock? You have to do a lot more work on these than they are even worth. Get a real HK.
    LOL. Well here is the difference, unlike SIG USA, MKE is a military contractor building guns to HK spec.

    As for just get a MP5, I already have 4 of them.



    As for "not being imported anymore", well you are wrong about that too. And here is more you are wrong about.

    Many HK parts DO work. A second batch has already arrived (mine are part of it) and a third batch is being negotiated.

    And yeah, we know about the rifle version. In fact if you actually R-E-A-D my original post I covered that specifically. That is why conversions are being done to the pistol version.

    I have plenty of real HK, both MP5s and 94s. And here is something else important. This post isn't about MKEs as an HK alternative. I'm pretty candid about what they are and what they aren't.

    But not everyone has $5k for a preban. As a result a lot of people are buying problematic clones. There is no reason. The MKEs make a much more reliable platform than any US clone. Of course if you read what I wrote rather than assuming you know what I said, you might understand that.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    LOL. Well here is the difference, unlike SIG USA, MKE is a military contractor building guns to HK spec.

    As for just get a MP5, I already have 4 of them.



    As for "not being imported anymore", well you are wrong about that too. And here is more you are wrong about.

    Many HK parts DO work. A second batch has already arrived (mine are part of it) and a third batch is being negotiated.

    And yeah, we know about the rifle version. In fact if you actually R-E-A-D my original post I covered that specifically. That is why conversions are being done to the pistol version.

    I have plenty of real HK, both MP5s and 94s. And here is something else important. This post isn't about MKEs as an HK alternative. I'm pretty candid about what they are and what they aren't.

    But not everyone has $5k for a preban. As a result a lot of people are buying problematic clones. There is no reason. The MKEs make a much more reliable platform than any US clone. Of course if you read what I wrote rather than assuming you know what I said, you might understand that.
    I R-E-A-D it, thanks. I just wanted to call you on it. MKE is FAR INFERIOR to HK, it's like a giving the Pakistani's a license to manufature HK's. Do you think they are the same as HK Deutchland?

    Sig USA and SIG Sauer San is the same thing as MKE/POF and HK, same damn thing. MKE did the same thing to the AT94's butchered them and neutered them to be able to get them into the country. MKE is far inferior and NOT interchangeable with real HK parts.

    BTW, what 922r parts do you have in the MKE? What US parts are available if you modify it?
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Why would that deter you? HK never imported a 3 lug pistol version of the 94. And if you can cut, crown and 3 lug a 94 you can do a MKE. That is exactly what I will be doing to the AT94P.

    The only appreciable difference is the MKE has the paddle mag already and the HK94 didn't.

    Cut, crown and 3 lug is not a big deal. Pretty easy gunsmithing actually. Every single transferable MP5 had it done as they all began life as HK94s.
    Since my first post on this thread SteyrAUG I found that IGF makes a 3 lug conversion http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/3lugguide.htm
    My question is forgive me for my HK newbieness but is the thread protector standard on HK?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Why would that deter you? HK never imported a 3 lug pistol version of the 94. And if you can cut, crown and 3 lug a 94 you can do a MKE. That is exactly what I will be doing to the AT94P.

    The only appreciable difference is the MKE has the paddle mag already and the HK94 didn't.

    Cut, crown and 3 lug is not a big deal. Pretty easy gunsmithing actually. Every single transferable MP5 had it done as they all began life as HK94s.

    Because if I'm going to go through with that much trouble I would buy another HK94 and put a factory HK 3 lug barrel in it.

    I don't want another gun project.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phazuka View Post
    I R-E-A-D it, thanks. I just wanted to call you on it. MKE is FAR INFERIOR to HK, it's like a giving the Pakistani's a license to manufature HK's. Do you think they are the same as HK Deutchland?
    Well for someone who R-E-A-D it you missed this in the original post also.

    "As far as fit, finish and performance these aren't quite Oberndorf quality, they are more like POF (Pakistani HK contract). But that means they are still light years ahead of the best US clone on the market, not to mention $1000 cheaper in most cases."

    This is in addition to all the other things I wrote that were pertinent to areas you raised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phazuka View Post
    Sig USA and SIG Sauer San is the same thing as MKE/POF and HK, same damn thing. MKE did the same thing to the AT94's butchered them and neutered them to be able to get them into the country. MKE is far inferior and NOT interchangeable with real HK parts.
    Hardly. HK and MKE are military contractors building to a military spec. SIG USA does NOT build to the same military specification as Swiss Arms.

    Furthermore the MKE pistols (which the OP was about specifically, you'd know that if you R-E-A-D it) are not neutered. The 94P is a pistol version of the HK94 and the 94K is nearly identical to the SP89 except for the missing forearm.

    In contrast the 556 wasn't simply a sporter version of the 550, if it was it would also be an awesome starting point for a 550 conversion. Sadly it is nothing more than a poor commercial copy of a military firearm that doesn't come close to the same spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phazuka View Post
    BTW, what 922r parts do you have in the MKE? What US parts are available if you modify it?
    You can get all kinds of US made HK parts from HKParts.net, and despite your assertions to the contrary, most are interchangeable. I'm even thinking about taking a US made trigger frame and modding it to fit so I can do a "faux" push pin.

    About the only part that would present difficulty would be the bolt carrier.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas M-4 View Post
    Since my first post on this thread SteyrAUG I found that IGF makes a 3 lug conversion http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/3lugguide.htm
    My question is forgive me for my HK newbieness but is the thread protector standard on HK?

    That threaded/3 lug combo is specific to the Navy (MP5-N) variant.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Because if I'm going to go through with that much trouble I would buy another HK94 and put a factory HK 3 lug barrel in it.

    I don't want another gun project.

    I understand. But I was just pointing out that it was the same for a HK94. And not everyone has the money for a preban. For those who do the starting point is around $4,500 for a HK94. Given that these are $3,000 cheaper I can see how some might be willing to make a concession.

    I grabbed these for "dirt and mud" guns since even my DOJ 94s are commanding prices in the $4,000+ range. And unlike clones, they are at least a military grade firearm.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  10. #30
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    Good write up and review. I have been wondering about just how good the HK clones are. Any recommendations for a good HK93 Clone?

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