MKE (AT94K/AT94P) Turkish HK Contracts...

[armakraut]

I'll probably end up deeply regretting not getting one, but for $1,500 it's still too little gun for too much money, especially considering how reasonable IMI and Vector UZI's are in cost.

BTW, if any of you are fence sitting, you'd do well to get off the fence, pronto, no further shipments are incoming. ATI indicated that Turkey was getting too greedy to do any further business with.

[SteyrAUG]

Good write up and review. I have been wondering about just how good the HK clones are. Any recommendations for a good HK93 Clone?

Currently there aren't any. JLD supposedly bought tooling from FMP to make 5.56 and 9mm models, but so far I haven't seen them.

Everyone else is using special weapons parts.

[SteyrAUG]

I'll probably end up deeply regretting not getting one, but for $1,500 it's still too little gun for too much money, especially considering how reasonable IMI and Vector UZI's are in cost.

BTW, if any of you are fence sitting, you'd do well to get off the fence, pronto, no further shipments are incoming. ATI indicated that Turkey was getting too greedy to do any further business with.

Actually what they said was this shipment (which is number 2) will be the last one at this price. They are trying to negotiate a better price than what is currently being discussed, but no matter what the price for shipment number 3 will be higher.

And with the current economy, they could end up sitting on the shelf with those high price tags and production ceased as we saw with the AUG A3s. That is why I jumped on these pronto.

[jhova98040]

I normally read, not post. With that said:

1) I have 2 MKEs, both form 1 SBRs. One is a PDW clone and the other is an A3 clone.

2) I haven't found an HK part OTHER than a full auto carrier that won't work on the reciever (the trigger pack needs to be changed to use HK FCG).
a) mine have HK F bolts, a HK and a POF barrel, HK semi carriers, and HK A3 and Choate stocks.
b) after market HK stuff works on them i.e. PTR compliance parts and Surefire and B&T accessories.

3) fit and finish is inferior to HK. Some are rougher than other. Smiths on HK pro can fix that if you get a rough one (mine were first batch and pretty nice)

4) Mine have about 3000 rounds between them. Very reliable and fun to shoot. Esp. Surpressed.

5) 922r is fairly affordable on the full-size pistol, PTR, Fleming, etc (no SW on mine, except the K handguard) offer a lot of parts.

Conclusion: great gun if you don't want to mess up a HK or deal with a hit or miss clone.

[DrewH]

Thanks to SteyrAUG for the heads up on these. Always regretted selling my SP89 (just prior to the ban on imports) back in the day. Saw a 94K in the LGS today and jumped on it.

Fit and finish seem pretty decent on mine, and I like the paddle mag. Now to begin NFA'ing it. When I owned my SP89 I lived in Alexandria, which didn't sign off, and no one had heard of trusts

Is it true that if I just add a foregrip that is an AOW and the tax stamp is only $5, versus $200 for converting it to an SBR?

[Coleslaw]

Cut, crown and 3 lug is not a big deal. Pretty easy gunsmithing actually. Every single transferable MP5 had it done as they all began life as HK94s.

Not really. That was a quick fix because for some time real 3 lug barrels were difficult to come by, imagine that. Navy barrels were even harder, but both became available and most conversions used real barrels or the ones made by Urbach, particularly on the PDW. Murray made them because German PDW barrels weren't available. They weren't fluted, but not a big deal in 9mm. In any case, it is funny that these pistols are coming from Pakistan, because many, many of the 3 lug barrels that were used in 94 to MP5 conversions were Paki because you couldn't get dick from HK, plus the Paki stuff was a bit cheaper.

Now here is where things get really different from the 90 series and why everyone on HKPro is so unhappy.



Inside the receiver (to the bottom right) is a small piece of metal welded in place which prevents the use of a 90 series or full auto bolt carrier. Now technically a registered sear pack (the registered sear would have to be installed in a trigger group that would mate with the MKE receiver) should render the entire thing a legal machine gun and that receiver block should be legal to remove (much in the same way FNC receivers can be modified to accept legal sears).

You may want to check on that. Adding a sear to the 'package' does not allow you to modify the receiver to accept mg parts. If you recall, semi model "A" and "B" UZI's that were 'converted using registered bolts could not have the rail removed from the receiver to accommodate a standard SMG bolt. The bolts had to be slotted for the rail.

Another example is the AK47 sears. Bill Flemming registered a bunch of them as time got short prior to the '86 ban and in fact installed some of them in rifles. ATF later ruled you couldn't use them because drilling the hole for the sear pin constituted making a second machine gun. Same with taking a sear or clip on reg rec HK 90 series and drilling it so to install the paddle mag release and accept a swing down lower. ATF says the 'hole' is a machine gun.


My guess is the rail was put in these 'pistols' for that exact reason, to prevent the install of mg parts, and may be the concession to the ATF that facilitated or as you said 'allowed' the importation.

[SteyrAUG]

Thanks to SteyrAUG for the heads up on these. Always regretted selling my SP89 (just prior to the ban on imports) back in the day. Saw a 94K in the LGS today and jumped on it.

Fit and finish seem pretty decent on mine, and I like the paddle mag. Now to begin NFA'ing it. When I owned my SP89 I lived in Alexandria, which didn't sign off, and no one had heard of trusts

Is it true that if I just add a foregrip that is an AOW and the tax stamp is only $5, versus $200 for converting it to an SBR?

Unless they changed something recently, should only be $5 for an AOW.

[glock281]

Unless they changed something recently, should only be $5 for an AOW.

$5 if you xfer from a dealer to you BUT if you make it a AOW (form 1) its $200 for the AOW or SBR. With the SBR you can put a stock or not on it.

[SteyrAUG]

Not really. That was a quick fix because for some time real 3 lug barrels were difficult to come by, imagine that. Navy barrels were even harder, but both became available and most conversions used real barrels or the ones made by Urbach, particularly on the PDW. Murray made them because German PDW barrels weren't available. They weren't fluted, but not a big deal in 9mm. In any case, it is funny that these pistols are coming from Pakistan, because many, many of the 3 lug barrels that were used in 94 to MP5 conversions were Paki because you couldn't get dick from HK, plus the Paki stuff was a bit cheaper.

Yes, you could also replace barrels. My point was every transferable MP5 began life as a HK94. I didn't mention replacing the barrel completely as most people are looking for a cost effective conversion.

You may want to check on that. Adding a sear to the 'package' does not allow you to modify the receiver to accept mg parts. If you recall, semi model "A" and "B" UZI's that were 'converted using registered bolts could not have the rail removed from the receiver to accommodate a standard SMG bolt. The bolts had to be slotted for the rail.

Another example is the AK47 sears. Bill Flemming registered a bunch of them as time got short prior to the '86 ban and in fact installed some of them in rifles. ATF later ruled you couldn't use them because drilling the hole for the sear pin constituted making a second machine gun. Same with taking a sear or clip on reg rec HK 90 series and drilling it so to install the paddle mag release and accept a swing down lower. ATF says the 'hole' is a machine gun.


My guess is the rail was put in these 'pistols' for that exact reason, to prevent the install of mg parts, and may be the concession to the ATF that facilitated or as you said 'allowed' the importation.

In the case of Uzi receivers it is that bar that prevents installation of a MG bolt just as the hole in a HK receiver allows the installation of a swing down HK group. Those are modifications that if done to a bare receiver result in the bare receiver being classed as a machine gun receiver. Same exact thing with the AK receivers, if you make the modification to a bare AK receiver it is now a MG.

By contrast, if you remove the plate in a MKE bare receiver it still will NOT accept a swing down pack thus it would NOT be a machine gun receiver. It is still a semi auto configuration receiver with the plate removed. Now if you drilled that hole in the MKE then you'd have a problem and that is the modification that can't be done.

There are a great many people even on HKPro who seem unclear about this, but if ATF follows their own rules and practices that is the case.

Where it becomes a problem is as a semi auto. That is because the modification is a requirement to be imported as a legal sporting firearm. Now 922r "should" eliminate that consideration as well since the resulting firearm is now "domestic" as it is no different from modifying a magazine well to accept high capacity magazines on a firearm imported to only accept 10 round magazines. But really there is no reason to remove it on a semi auto so most people haven't really made it an issue.

[JoshNC]

By contrast, if you remove the plate in a MKE bare receiver it still will NOT accept a swing down pack thus it would NOT be a machine gun receiver. It is still a semi auto configuration receiver with the plate removed. Now if you drilled that hole in the MKE then you'd have a problem and that is the modification that can't be done.

There are a great many people even on HKPro who seem unclear about this, but if ATF follows their own rules and practices that is the case.

I would think the safest way to do this would be to weld on an HK-pattern shelf that covers over the bushing for the front push pin, then remove the block in the receiver. That way there is definitively no possible way to make it fullauto. It is then mechanically identical to the HK 9x series.