Reloading AR on closed bolt, downloaded mags

[Gunmetal]

I recently bought my first AR, a RRA Elite CAR A4. (I know, I know. My next will be a builder.) I've also got a variety of mags -- AR-Stoner, CProducts, and a bunch of PMAGs.

Reloading on an open bolt is not a problem; however, even with 30rd mags (including PMAGs) downloaded to 28, or 20s downloaded to 18, it's extremely difficult to get the mag to seat when the bolt is closed. I am using a "beer can" hold on the mags, FWIW.

I basically have to do one of two things:

a. Release my firing grip and push the mag into the well, with great force, while applying counter pressure on the top of the receiver with my firing hand;

or

b. slam the mag into the well at high speed and with great force.

Method "A" takes about all the force I can muster and is very slow, and method "B" is still not reliable, 30-40% of the time the mag still does not seat and I have to keep slamming it home or banging on the baseplate until it locks in. (This probably isn't doing the top round any favors either.)

Is there a better technique to this, or could there be something wrong? I'm paranoid about having an out-of-spec lower receiver, for example. I knew this would be difficult but didn't expect this much trouble with downloaded mags. I am perfectly willing to accept that maybe I am just too wimpy but am hoping that I am just missing something. I don't see why I should have to exhaust myself slamming in a few downloaded mags.

The "bang on baseplate" method seems to work most of the time, but I can't count on the mag to not fall out of the magwell when I remove my hand to wind up for the slam. (And this will only get worse as the mags and magwell wear.)

Thanks.

[jackinfl]

Something must be going on, is it the same with all the mags downloaded to 28? the reason for the 28 is just that to allow the spring to move a little when compressed by the upward pressure of seating the mag.

I'd try some one elses gun and mags and see if it just your technique. I'd then have them try yours.

The Best thing you can do is go to a BASIC Carbine class and state that you are completely new to the system and start from there.

I learned from an angry old mean Irishman, the push then pull technique. The firm Push seats the magazine in the well then the pull down on the magazine ensures it is locked in...

Hour 2 training day 3: "PUSH/PULL did I forget to go over that" You hear this enough and you don't for get it.

Additionally, I'd recommend against tweaking any springs or twisting and loosening/tightening anything yourself. There are plenty of Armorer's that can hook you up.

Best of Luck Let us know how you do.

[John_Wayne777]

It definitely sounds like you have some issues here. It shouldn't take 2 hands for ANYONE to reload an AR mag....not even tiny females without much upper body strength.

With a mag downloaded to 28 rounds, reloads should be a relative breeze. It sounds like your mags are most likely in spec....

Meaning that something in your rifle might not be...either the mag well itself or the mag catch that holds the magazine in.

The mag catch would be my first guess, but I'm not an AR whiz like some of the guys on here.

[rob_s]

I'm with my man jack. I always seat the mag and then give a tap and tug.

[jmart]

I've had that problem w/C Products mags.

[Gunmetal]

I've tried it with a PMAG, 2 CProducts mags (1x30 and 1x20), an AR-Stoner, and also the mag that came with the gun (NHMTG). Same results with all.

I'll definitely see if I can scrape up someone local with an AR I can try, right now I don't know anybody in my area with one.

The amount of force I have to use can be likened to that required to crush the skull of a small animal. I didn't think it was normal, but it being my first AR and all...

Later on I'll experiment to see how few rounds I need to actually load in order to NOT have this problem. Sigh.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Since I reload from mag pouches most of the time my reloads go like this:

Mags floor plates up, bullet points facing to my right. I grab the bungee pull it left, off the floor plate, this is a very high speed, relatively rough act as they are pretty tight.

I then grab the mag with my left hand with my index finger on the mag's front rib, my thumb on the side closest to me, and the rest of my hand cupped around the other side and the back rib.

Using the "cupping the floor plate" approach I can maintain a good enough hold on the mag to get it out of the pouch, and then flip it on the way into the mag pouch. Also, by cupping the mag I'm able to slam it in with a good amount of upward force.

After its in, I give it a firm slap to ensure it is seated. After that if I have time, I'll give it a tug to make sure its in. I use this drill whether the gun is empty or if I'm swapping mags. Its just one little extra slap and it becomes muscle memory much easier if you just do it all the time regardless of the bolt closed or open.

BTW I use 30 rounds in USGI mags, I'd rather have two rounds and slap them a little harder. From the sound of things, some people are loading their mags till they can't move the spring at all. That doesn't seem like 30 to me. On all my mags there is about enough leeway to almost fit one more round in, even when loaded to thirty.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

I've tried it with a PMAG, 2 CProducts mags (1x30 and 1x20), an AR-Stoner, and also the mag that came with the gun (NHMTG). Same results with all.

I'll definitely see if I can scrape up someone local with an AR I can try, right now I don't know anybody in my area with one.

The amount of force I have to use can be likened to that required to crush the skull of a small animal. I didn't think it was normal, but it being my first AR and all...

Later on I'll experiment to see how few rounds I need to actually load in order to NOT have this problem. Sigh.

You could just have a tight mag well, or you could have some issues with your mag catch. I'd try to adjust it to see if that helps.

[C4IGrant]

Since I reload from mag pouches most of the time my reloads go like this:

Mags floor plates up, bullet points facing to my right. I grab the bungee pull it left, off the floor plate, this is a very high speed, relatively rough act as they are pretty tight.

I then grab the mag with my left hand with my index finger on the mag's front rib, my thumb on the side closest to me, and the rest of my hand cupped around the other side and the back rib.

Using the "cupping the floor plate" approach I can maintain a good enough hold on the mag to get it out of the pouch, and then flip it on the way into the mag pouch. Also, by cupping the mag I'm able to slam it in with a good amount of upward force.

After its in, I give it a firm slap to ensure it is seated. After that if I have time, I'll give it a tug to make sure its in. I use this drill whether the gun is empty or if I'm swapping mags. Its just one little extra slap and it becomes muscle memory much easier if you just do it all the time regardless of the bolt closed or open.

BTW I use 30 rounds in USGI mags, I'd rather have two rounds and slap them a little harder. From the sound of things, some people are loading their mags till they can't move the spring at all. That doesn't seem like 30 to me. On all my mags there is about enough leeway to almost fit one more round in, even when loaded to thirty.

While you can do tac reloads with 30rds loaded in the mag, it is ALWAYS a better idea to down load to 28. Under stress, it will be easier and many a time a full loaded mag actually creates a malfunction in the weapon.

Remember that the AR mag is about the weakest link in the entire platform.

Also work on a push pull method. This will save time as your hand is already on the mag (no need take it off and then slap it again). I see guys that don't get a lock on the first insertion and then as they go to slap it, the mag falls out.




C4

[C4IGrant]

GM, something doesn't seem right. Do your mags drop freely (when empty)?

Another possible issue is the position of your mag catch. It could be too high which then forces you to try and push the feedlips of the mag into your bolt carrier.



C4