No surprise. This is exactly why I'm avoiding the Sig 556 family and trying to get a hold of an all-swiss 550/551. If only I could find one for a decent amount.
No surprise. This is exactly why I'm avoiding the Sig 556 family and trying to get a hold of an all-swiss 550/551. If only I could find one for a decent amount.
Leave the guns...bring the cannolis.
Give me but one firm spot on which to stand and I will move the Earth. -Archimedes
I always hear this analogy but aren't the lowers and uppers made by only 2 or 3 defense contractors anyway? The same people that make DPMS lowers make NOVESKE, COLT, Sig, BCM, anyone who uses the standard aluminum forged receivers.....so I discount this argument. AR's are now just a collection of parts thrown together and the quality of the builder is the stamp on the side of the magwell of a good AR, not the parts itself.
SIG has to design and manufacture ALL of their components for their rifles, mainly the 556 series. They cant buy all their major components from a defense contractor, stamp their name on it and call it an AR. I applaud them for this and want them to succeed. I haven't been disappointed in my experiences with SIG products but I'm not a professional and I do not rely on them as a "Serious" carbine. They are for FUN and for shooting and getting outside and blasting! Doesn't anyone shoot for fun anymore or have fun guns anymore?
The days of me having to use one of these guns for it's intended SERIOUS purpose is behind me, now it's all about the FUN. The days of me having a rifle to protect myself 24/7/365 are over, now it's all about which gun is going to the range on the weekend or which one I need to work on, or which one I need to zero. I'm glad that's all I have to worry about now.
Last edited by Phazuka; 03-19-11 at 17:53.
Low Speed, High Drag Phone Operator
Please check out the Military Arms Channel on YouTube.
Please check out the Military Arms Channel on YouTube.
I haven't heard about anything specific to what Sig USA and Cohen did with the 556. Is it posted on here? I agree that hate is not the correct word for me either. I love the look and quality of the originals and I'm disappointed they didn't offer the old and new configurations with the same or better quality. That's why I'm stuck scouring message boards and forums searching for the original, to no avail.
Leave the guns...bring the cannolis.
Give me but one firm spot on which to stand and I will move the Earth. -Archimedes
We're speaking different languages and coming at this from very different perspectives.
Firstly, AR's are not all the same, if you would take some time to research this, there is a wealth of information here that has been gathered over the years by people in that regard.
Secondly, I've provided first hand accounts of SIG's attitude towards the 556, how it's not aimed or built for a serious use carbine. They fired a guy who could have built it to Swiss standards because he objected to the dumbing down of the carbine. There have been repeated and numerous issues with reliability and durability with the 556.
If you can't understand that, then I'm just banging my head against the wall and that doesn't feel too good.
One of the major reasons these carbine have issues is that SIG isn't making all the parts. They outsource. Now, for one component, the barrel, that's a good thing as the people who make the barrel are some of the best in the industry.
This forum is not about "fun" carbines. That's a major disconnect that we have over this carbine.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54936
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019
Please take some time to read the above threads, they do an excellent job in explaining the differences between M4C and a forum like AR15.com
If all your looking for is a fun carbine and it doesn't matter if it goes "click" instead of "bang" when you're on a square range, then go ahead and buy 7 or 8 of these things and have a great time.
If that is what you're looking for, then this site might not be the best fit for you. Sites like SIGForum, FALFiles, TheAKForum, or AR15.com are probably a much better fit for you.
But, the simple fact is that the SIG USA 556 is not a "duty ready" carbine. It might be one day, but not right now.
There's a lot of knowledgeable people who know back stories and have first hand experience with both the Swiss Arms and the SIG USA 556 rifles that have repeatedly explained why the 556 is not up to snuff as a serious use carbine. To simply ignore those people and argue about it is asinine, unless all you're looking for is to have fun at the range with it, in which case you shouldn't be arguing.
I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but arguing that the SIG USA 556 is a serious use carbine as they are currently manufactured, is indefensible.
As a "fun gun", sure, have at it, but not something that people should expect to put in a police cruiser or keep for defense.
Employee of colonialshooting.com
There's no way he'd come on a board and go into detail, but the short of it is, he was hired by SIG USA to develop a rifle based on the SIG 550/551 that could be built here in the US. He demonstrated how to do so and maintain Swiss Arms standards without breaking the bank, but there were/are people inside the upper management of SIG USA who wanted to dumb the rifle down, dispense with quality control, and make maximum return on their investments at the cost of said quality control. Much as it's "cheaper" for DPMS and Bushmaster to repair carbines that they know probably won't get shot very much than it is to do it right the first time, SIG USA made that calculation.
He butted heads repeatedly with upper management and Cohen, trying to save the project and make a carbine that was worth of the SIG name, but was ultimately let go.
Employee of colonialshooting.com
Are you saying I'm excluded from a site "like this" because I'm not serious enough? I only train once a month with my NG unit and like I said I'm no longer in the active military. To be honest, being a weekend warrior is FUN. Not so much serious.
"to promote a generally collegial atmosphere where the experienced armed professional and the newcomer to shooting can both get something out of the site,"
Can't both casual shooters and professionals coexist on here without there being a class system or caste system? I did not read anywhere in those links where they exclude casual shooters from expressing their opinion, and yes some do have experience like myself.
Are we not equals or are there some here that are "better" than others? By not "trying to be a dick" is like saying "just sayin". I don't see any difference between yourself and I and I do not look down upon you. I'd like to be treated in somewhat the same respect. I have been nothing but cordial to you in the past and was never "trying to be a dick" at any time. I don't like anyone trying to be a dick more than I would like to try being a dick to someone else.
I guess that's the difference between us.
Last edited by Phazuka; 03-19-11 at 19:01.
Low Speed, High Drag Phone Operator
It's a damn shame that Sig Sauer is feeding this new business model and giving the customer something that could get them killed. A far cry from the guns imported and produced under the Sigarms name pre 2005. So many lost opportunities for Sig to grab hold of the LE market with a 550/551 clone, or have a continuance of their Federal pistol contracts, but they are losing out left and right here in the US.
Not all opinions are created equal. That is a flawed premise. This type of thinking is why most forums turn into turd farms.Are we not equals or are there some here that are "better" than others?
If the 556 is a quality firearm, so is DPMS, Bushmaster the XD and anything by Taurus.
Is that what M4C is coming to?
If the 556 was built to Swiss standards, as it should be, there would be less contention on the issue. It isn't like SIG USA didn't have a well traveled blueprint to follow. They just chose not to, thus removing their end product from "duty class" to "bubba shooting in flip flops and tank top fodder"...
Last edited by variablebinary; 03-19-11 at 19:07.
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
What Happened to the American dream? It came true. You're looking at it.
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