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Thread: Introducing the 7.62X40-the new .30 caliber AR solution

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    Introducing the 7.62X40-the new .30 caliber AR solution

    http://www.wilsoncombat.com/762x40wt.htm


    The Practical .30 Cal. AR-15 Solution

    Available now from Wilson Combat - The 7.62x40 WT (Wilson Tactical) is an all new powerful .30 caliber cartridge solution for the standard AR-15 rifle platform that is inherently accurate, low recoil and only requires one unique part - a new barrel. The 7.62x40 WT works with all other standard pattern 5.56 AR components and is completely reliable with the new Lancer® L5 AWM magazines as modified by Wilson Combat.

    Ideal for Hunting and Tactical Use

    The wide range of available .30 caliber hunting bullets makes the 7.62x40 WT an ideal choice for hunting of medium to large size game with the downrange ballistic performance only a .30 Caliber projectile can deliver. Experienced shooters will be pleased by the match grade accuracy and terminal effectiveness and energy easily exceeding the 7.62x39 Russian, while novice shooters will appreciate the mild recoil and low report.
    Tactical shooters looking for a hard hitting, fast handling, practical .30 Caliber AR-15 service carbine will find the 7.62x40 WT a viable alternative to the 5.56x45 for self defense and law enforcement applications. With 18/19 or 28/29 round capacity using Wilson Combat modified Lancer® L5 AWM 5.56 magazines, maximum firepower is retained.

    Components, Loaded Ammunition and Complete Guns

    The 7.62x40 WT cartridge is based on a standard Lake City 5.56x45 NATO/.223 cartridge case that goes through a simple shortening and reforming operation to achieve appropriate cartridge dimensions. Wilson Combat has reloading dies, case gages, cartridge cases, handload data and a variety of loaded ammunition to fully support this caliber.

    A complete lineup of Wilson Combat 7.62x40 WT rifles, uppers and match-grade barrels are also available now.

    Ballistic Performance Comparison:

    7.62x40 WT (16” Barrel)
    110 gr: 2450 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1466 Foot Pounds of Energy
    125 gr: 2400 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1599 Foot Pounds of Energy
    150 gr: 2200 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1612 Foot Pounds of Energy

    5.56 Nato (16” Barrel)
    55 gr: 3150 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1212 Foot Pounds of Energy
    62 gr: 3000 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1239 Foot Pounds of Energy
    77 gr: 2750 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1293 Foot Pounds of Energy

    7.62x39 (16” Barrel)
    123 gr: 2320 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1470 Foot Pounds of Energy

    6.8 SPC (16” Barrel)
    110 gr: 2550 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1594 Foot Pounds of Energy

    300 BLACKOUT (16” Barrel)
    125 gr: 2275 FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1436 Foot Pounds of Energy

    NOTE for Handloaders: Once a 7.62x40 WT case has been fired once it will be fire- formed and provide approximately 1 gr. additional powder capacity and the potential for approximately 25-50 FPS more velocity at comparable pressure levels.

    Trajectory and Remaining Velocity:
    125 gr. Nosler Ballistic Hunter, 2375 FPS MV, Zero range 175 yards
    100 yds +1.7” 2156 FPS
    150 yds +1.1” 2052 FPS
    200 yds -1.6” 1951 FPS
    250 yds -6.6” 1854 FPS

    Available Wilson Combat® Rifle Models

    SBR Tactical Model, 11.3"

    Forged 7075 Upper (Flat Top) and Lower Receiver
    Wilson Combat SBR Tactical Match Grade Barrel with 6 Groove / 1:12 Twist (Conventional or Polygonal Rifling) or Noveske Polygonal 1:11 Twist
    Carbine Length Gas System with Lo-Profile Gas Block
    Threaded Muzzle (5/8 x 24) with Accu-Tac Flash Hider
    Wilson Combat T.R.I.M. Rail - 10.4"
    Ergo Pistol Grip
    Wilson Combat Tactical Triggerguard
    Rogers/Wilson Super-Stoc
    Wilson Combat TTU (Tactical Trigger Unit) Single Stage, 4#
    Premium Mil-Spec Bolt and Bolt Carrier, MP Inspected, NP3 Coated
    Mil-Spec Hard Anodize Finish on Upper / Lower Receivers
    Armor-Tuff® Finish
    20 Round Modified Lancer L5 AWM Magazine
    Recon Tactical Model, 16"

    Forged 7075 Upper (Flat Top) and Lower Receiver
    Wilson Combat Recon Tactical Match Grade Barrel with 6 Groove / 1:12 Twist (Conventional or Polygonal Rifling) or Noveske Polygonal 1:11 Twist
    Carbine Length Gas System with Lo-Profile Gas Block
    Threaded Muzzle (5/8 x 24) with Accu-Tac Flash Hider
    Wilson Combat T.R.I.M. Rail - 9.3"
    Ergo Pistol Grip
    Wilson Combat Tactical Triggerguard
    Rogers/Wilson Super-Stoc
    Wilson Combat TTU (Tactical Trigger Unit) Single Stage, 4#
    Premium Mil-Spec Bolt and Bolt Carrier, MP Inspected, NP3 Coated
    Mil-Spec Hard Anodize Finish on Upper / Lower Receivers
    Armor-Tuff® Finish
    20 Round Modified Lancer L5 AWM Magazine
    Tactical Hunter Model, 18" or 20"

    Forged 7075 Upper (Flat Top) and Lower Receiver
    Wilson Combat Tactical Hunter Match Grade Barrel with 6 Groove / 1:12 Twist (Conventional or Polygonal Rifling) or Noveske Polygonal 1:11 Twist
    Mid Length Gas System with Lo-Profile Gas Block
    18" or 20" with Crowned Muzzle or 18" with Threaded Muzzle (5/8 x 24) with Accu-Tac Flash Hider
    Wilson Combat T.R.I.M. Rail - 10.4" on 18" Barrels, 12.6" on 20" Barrels
    Ergo Pistol Grip
    Wilson Combat Tactical Triggerguard
    Rogers/Wilson Super-Stoc
    Wilson Combat TTU (Tactical Trigger Unit) Two-Stage, 4#
    Premium Mil-Spec Bolt and Bolt Carrier, MP Inspected, NP3 Coated
    Mil-Spec Hard Anodize Finish on Upper / Lower Receivers
    Armor-Tuff® Finish
    20 Round Modified Lancer L5 AWM Magazine
    Back to Top


    7.62x40 WT Handload Data


    110gr Sierra Hollow Point
    21gr Hodgdon H110
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.110” OAL
    110gr Barnes TTSX
    21gr Hodgdon H110 (16” barrels or shorter)
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.250” OAL

    110gr Barnes TTSX
    25gr Accurate 1680 (16” barrels or longer)
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.250” OAL

    125gr Sierra Pro Hunter
    25.5gr Accurate 1680
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.160” OAL

    125gr Speer TNT
    25.5gr Accurate 1680
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.250” OAL

    125gr Nosler Ballistic Hunter
    25gr Accurate 1680
    Lake City formed case
    Remington 7 ˝
    2.250” OAL

    These loads have proven to be safe in our test guns, but as with all handload data we suggest you start with a 10% reduction in powder charge weight. Wilson Combat assumes no liability for the use or misuse of this information, use at your own risk.

    Back to Top


    7.62x40 WT Project Available Products



    Barrels
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, SBR Tactical, 11.3", Stainless
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, Recon Tactical, 16", Stainless
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, Recon Tactical, 16", Stainless, Fluted
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 18", Stainless, Non-Threaded
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 18", Stainless
    Match Grade Barrel, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 20", Stainless, Non-Threaded
    Ammunition
    7.62x40 WT | 110 gr. Sierra HP, 2425 FPS - 16" Barrel, 20/Box
    7.62x40 WT | 110 gr. Barnes TTSX, 2400 FPS - 16" Barrel, 20/Box
    7.62x40 WT | 125 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, 2350 FPS - 16" Barrel, 20/Box
    7.62x40 WT | 125 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter, 2350 FPS - 16" Barrel, 20/Box
    7.62x40 WT | 125 gr. Speer TNT, 2400 FPS - 16" Barrel, 20/Box
    Reloading
    Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension 2-Die Set, 7.62x40 WT
    Cartridge Gauge, 7.62x40 WT
    Brass, 7.62x40 WT, Unprimed, 100/Bag
    Brass, 7.62x40 WT, Unprimed, Once Fired, 100/Bag
    Magazines
    AR Style Magazine, 7.62x40 WT, 20 Round, Polymer | Lancer L5 AWM
    AR Style Magazine, 7.62x40 WT, 30 Round, Polymer | Lancer L5 AWM

    Complete Upper Assemblies
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, SBR Tactical, 11.3"
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, Recon Tactical, 16"
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, Recon Tactical, 16", Fluted
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 18"
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 18", Non-Threaded
    Complete Upper Assembly, 7.62x40 WT, Tactical Hunter, 20"
    Often Imitated-NEVER Duplicated
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    m4carbine.net SITE SPONSOR
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  2. #2
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    What are the case dimensions of the 7.62x40 and capacity compared to the 300 Blackout? What pressures are both rounds loaded to? How deeply does the 150 gr bullet intrude into the powder space? Which 150 gr bullet is used, is it a flat base or boat tail? With a twist of 1:11 or 1:12, does that mean this new round intended to run bullets of 150 gr & less? Has the 7.62x40 been submitted to SAAMI? The blurb states that the factory ammo will be fire-formed upon firing to give an additional grain of capacity. Where does the factory case headspace? When fire-formed, what changes? Does the fire-formed case have less body taper and/or steeper shoulder angle?

    What has been posted is a lot of advertising hype with very little technical data
    Last edited by MistWolf; 03-31-11 at 16:33.
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    I don't think fire forming increases apparent case capacity in any significant way because at the chamber pressures of rifle cartridges, the brass flows to fill the chamber as you shoot it the first time and is not really 'noticed' by the powder. Also why does the brass need to be fire formed anyway compared to, say, 5.56mm? Why would it not match the chamber?

    Also, powder burn rate has 95% to do with bullet weight and about 5% to do with barrel length. This is because peak chamber pressure - the limit of how much powder you can use, is reached before the bullet has moved even one inch. So there would be no reason to change from H110 to A1680 when you go from a 16 or under length barrel to an over 16 inch barrel. Whichever powder gives the most velocity in a 10 inch barrel will almost certainly also give the most velocity in a 16 or 20 inch barrel as well.

    Just to give an example, I put 7.62x40mm into QuickDesign, and then simulated it in QuickLoad. With a 10 inch barrel and a Nosler 125 loaded to 2.25 OAL, the top powders are (deleting the ones not available in the US) from most to least velocity:

    Winchester 296
    Hodgdon Lil'Gun
    Hodgdon H110
    Accurate 5744
    Alliant 2400
    Ramshot Enforcer
    Accurate 1680

    Now I change to a 20 inch barrel, and the top powders are:

    Winchester 296
    Hodgdon Lil'Gun
    Hodgdon H110
    Accurate 5744
    Accurate 1680
    Alliant 2400
    Ramshot Enforcer

    You can see - A1680 moved up two slots so there is some gain, but still did not overtake H110/296. It could be wrong and pressure barrel tests would be definitive, but at least this shows the theory that powder selection does not have much to do with barrel length.
    Last edited by rsilvers; 03-31-11 at 18:16.

  4. #4
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    We try to answer as much as we can on the website....

    MistWolf,
    We try to answer as many questions as we can initially think of on the website. On the barrels pages, you'll note that our 762x40WT barrels are 1/12" twist. While we mention that the round is designed with use with bullets from 11-150 grains in mind, we don't produce any loads with 150gr bullets. Your handloading choice of 150grain bullets would determine how much case capacity the bullet would take up.

    I am working on a schematic that I can post to address your cartridge dimension questions. Thanks for the interest!
    Often Imitated-NEVER Duplicated
    Wilson Combat Online Representative
    m4carbine.net SITE SPONSOR
    www.wilsoncombat.com
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    (800) 955-4856

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    What are the case dimensions of the 7.62x40 and capacity compared to the 300 Blackout? What pressures are both rounds loaded to? How deeply does the 150 gr bullet intrude into the powder space? Which 150 gr bullet is used, is it a flat base or boat tail? With a twist of 1:11 or 1:12, does that mean this new round intended to run bullets of 150 gr & less? Has the 7.62x40 been submitted to SAAMI? The blurb states that the factory ammo will be fire-formed upon firing to give an additional grain of capacity. Where does the factory case headspace? When fire-formed, what changes? Does the fire-formed case have less body taper and/or steeper shoulder angle?

    What has been posted is a lot of advertising hype with very little technical data
    Will try to get our reamer print posted on the web site.

    Flat base 150gr bullets work best since they take up less powder capacity, but the cartridge really shines with 125gr bullets. It's strictly designed for supersonic use, this is why we only offer 1-10 to 1-12 twist bbls. For reference 125gr Speer TNTs do not waste any powder capacity, the base of the bullet is at the bottom of the neck.

    Fireformed cases have less body taper and a steeper angle shoulder. It headspaces on an area of the shoulder that doesn't change, you will just have more shoulder area to headspace on after firing.

    We have not decided if we will submit to SAAMI. I have personally shot THOUSANDS of rounds that were loaded hotter than the ammo we sell with no issues.

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    So this would require a new barrel and proprietary magazines? Would the modifications made to the Lancer mag be able to be done with other magazines and would it be able to be done by the end user?
    Last edited by ShortytheFirefighter; 03-31-11 at 21:41.

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    "Also, powder burn rate has 95% to do with bullet weight and about 5% to do with barrel length. This is because peak chamber pressure - the limit of how much powder you can use, is reached before the bullet has moved even one inch. So there would be no reason to change from H110 to A1680 when you go from a 16 or under length barrel to an over 16 inch barrel. Whichever powder gives the most velocity in a 10 inch barrel will almost certainly also give the most velocity in a 16 or 20 inch barrel as well. "

    The above was posted by RSilvers and may be true in theory or what Quickload lists, but all I can tell you is that in real world application this is what happens............

    16" or less bbls: H110 has no muzzle flash and maximum safe velocity is basically the same as A1680, with A1680 in a 11" we get substantial muzzle flash (not good with NV) and no real velocity gain.

    In 18" or longer bbls: A1680 gives us maximum velocity at less pressure than H110. With A1680 you can get a SUBSTANTIAL velocity increase with a 20" bbl over a 16" bbl. You simply can't get enough A1680 in the case to create serious pressure signs either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShortytheFirefighter View Post
    So this would require a new barrel and proprietary magazines? Would the modifications made to the Lancer mag be able to be done with other magazines and would it be able to be done by the end user?
    Yes bbl and mag is all that's required

    We have found the new Lancer AWM to be the best mag for this cartridge. We are removing a portion of the front rib, yes it can be done by had with a wood rasp or something similar, however we do a much better job with our CNC machine (-:

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    What is probably happening is that QuickLoad is incorrect about which powder gives the most velocity. You have found that A1680, in actual testes, gives the most velocity, but has too much flash for short barrels. That makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    What is probably happening is that QuickLoad is incorrect about which powder gives the most velocity. You have found that A1680, in actual testes, gives the most velocity, but has too much flash for short barrels. That makes sense.
    A1680 has always given the highest velocity and I have not seen any pressure signs that concern me at all and have never blown a primer........can't say that about H110 when trying to get to top velocity!!!! Just way too much flash and boom in short bbls for me......

  11. #11
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    hmmmmmmm... mags are not ridiculously priced, barrels are cheap, ammo price isn't bad at all considering it's proprietary. i probably won't be the guinea pig, but i'm definitely interested.

    looks very promising, WC.

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    .750" gas blocks, looks like?

    its not a particularly hot load, as far as i know about such things.. any estimates on service life? possible plans for cheaper training ammo? possibility for CMV/CL barrels down the road?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    .750" gas blocks, looks like?

    its not a particularly hot load, as far as i know about such things.. any estimates on service life? possible plans for cheaper training ammo? possibility for CMV/CL barrels down the road?
    Yes, .750" blocks

    I have two uppers with 3-5000 rounds through them and they show no abnormal wear and tear even though a lot of the loads fired through them were over max doing load development.

    I think we have enough bbl choices already without CL, more bbls choices will be put on the web site later this week. We also have some Noveski's coming in too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWilson View Post

    We also have some Noveski's coming in too.
    As in Noveske Rifleworks? Are they getting on board with 7.62x40mm WT or just offering barrels at this point?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kafir View Post
    As in Noveske Rifleworks? Are they getting on board with 7.62x40mm WT or just offering barrels at this point?

    Thanks.
    They made some of the original barrels for Kurt and they shot really well so we had them make us some more for those Noveski barrel fans. I have no idea if they plan to offer any 7.62x40WT product direct???

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    Thanks for the info.

    Very intrigued by this caliber...looking at alternatives to 6.8 for medium-sized game hunting application out of a 16" or 18" barrel non-suppressed.

    In your testing what loads/bullets worked best in the 18"? What is the realistic range on those loads?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kafir View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    Very intrigued by this caliber...looking at alternatives to 6.8 for medium-sized game hunting application out of a 16" or 18" barrel non-suppressed.

    In your testing what loads/bullets worked best in the 18"? What is the realistic range on those loads?

    Thanks.
    Deer: 125gr Sierra PH or 125gr Nosler BT over A1680

    Hogs: 125gr Sierra PH or 110gr Barnes TTSX over A1680

    The 125gr Sierra PH has become my "go to" bullet. If you can find any you had better buy them, Sierra and all the major component dist are out of stock and the next production run is not scheduled until late June.

    I consider this caliber a 250yd one, I rarely shoot past 150yds so works well for me.

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    Why?

    A decent 123 grain 7.62x39 load from Bitterroot Valley Ammunition clocks in at 2483 FPS. That's good for 1683 ft/lbs trumping any of the loads listed below.

    Is it an issue of good magazines for 7.62x39? Is it that we just can't admit that the Russkies got it right back in the 40s?


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    While there are some people who would not use anything Russian, I am not one of those people. 7.62x39mm requires a larger bolt face, which is very prone to breakage. It also has a taper which is not compatible with the straight section of the AR magazine well.

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    Rsilvers,

    Got it, so part of it is cramming a 7.62x39 head onto a bolt with an overall size setup for the smaller head of the 5.56 is the bigger issue. Looking at the head diameters between 6.8 and 7.62x39, it appears that the 7.62 head is .050 larger approximately in diameter, correct? Our most 7.62x39 conversions sbased on simply milling out the head opening on the bolt from a standard 5.56 bolt? Is there no way to make the head larger?

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