"Breaking In" a Barrel?

[MistWolf]

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...96#Post1562996
Here's a very interesting post over on Sniper's Hide from a guy who did a lot of research and really looked into it.
Ultimately the answer/conclusion that I drew from it was no, barrel break-in is unnecessary. Shooting the gun itself is what's smoothing out any possible imperfections or burrs or anything like that, not dragging a cloth patch and solvent through it every few rounds.

The idea of cleaning after the shots is to keep fouling from filling in the rough spots and preventing them from being smoothed. No one thinks cotton patches or bore brushes deburr or smooth anything inside the barrel.

Ok, almost nobody. Except for maybe folks on a certain forum or two...

[Littlelebowski]

That post has some interesting observations that I also ran across shooting high power. There have always been multiple opinions as to when and how to clean a match rifle barrel. The general consensus has been slowly building toward not cleaning the barrel for the duration of the season. Another question was how to clean the barrel, chemically or with an abrasive. I was in the chemical corner until another shooter explained his reasons for using bore paste. By removing all the copper fouling via chemical cleaning, seasoning the now completely clean barrel causes additional wear and increases the size of the micro fissures on the inside of the barrel.

By using abrasives, you smooth out the entire barrel, wearing out the sharp edges as well,

[mike boufford]

By using abrasives, you smooth out the entire barrel, wearing out the sharp edges as well,

What are you using, 5 micron diamond paste?

Actually I'm glad to see this thread come up. As a newbie here, I cannot seemingly operate the search function, which may be due to my low post count.

I have a Colt CAR A3 with a 24" stainless heavy match barrel. I've been told to shoot once and then clean after each shot for 20 rounds. The process is then progressing to cleaning every two shots for 20 shots, every 5 shots for 20 shots, then every 10 shots, and then when done shooting for the day. I'm just a little skeptical of this because that level of shooting wouldn't leave a large enough deposit on the barrel surface to matter. Cleaning after every 10 shots for the first couple of hundred makes more sense.

My bigger concern in any barrel would be throat erosion before rifling wear. Reloading and dialing in the load to the barrel and chamber is more important to precision shooting IMO. My favorite rifle when I was younger was an off the shelf Ruger M77 in .25-06. The load I worked up for it consisted of 50.5 grains of IMR 4831 with a 117 gr Sierra Game King boattail on top of it. This load, tuned to the barrel, provided accuracy capable of picking 5 out of 5 empty shot gun shells off of a target rail at 200 yards. The scope was the limiting factor in improving the accuracy of this weapon.

[Littlelebowski]

Mike, please read this.

[Littlelebowski]

Go to http://google.com

Type the below (not the "code" part) in exactly. You may substitute your own search criteria in the quotes. Press return or enter.

"barrel break in" site:m4carbine.net

[ALCOAR]

The reason I cannot read much in this subforum w/o going mad...and the reason I assume Molon hasn't been seen in such a long time is that the same folks blast one set of opinions using "internet quotes/facts" to bolster their opinions one week...then the next week that set of opinions isn't the same, no surprise the quoted intel is different as well.

Dude, I recall you scoffing off a reply I made when I said that the premise of frequent cleanings..be it light cleaning...has benefit for any real match grade SS blank that consistently shoot's and measures sub moa groups time in and time out again. (instead of this bullshit "clean when accuracy drops off" line that should never be used in this subforum). If you want combat accuracy, be my guest and do the old self monitoring of accuracy until you can document your 2-3 moa dropping to about 2.5-3.5 moa.

So your still staying pat on breaking in procedure of any kind is hocus pocus....and here you sourced The wisdom of Gale link that you provided above. This is the very first entry of his....

"It seems that every time I finish a chapter in my book someone makes a post on my material.. I just finished this subject yesterday. I tried a controlled
test in 1984 on cryo treated barrels. It was on S/S match Bench Rest barrels and it was for accuracy only. Results were negative. It did not help. A
couple of years ago Lazzeroni did a comprehensive accuracy and wear test. The conclusion was accuracy negative but some improvement to wear.
Before he did a release on the study he did the complete study again. This time the results were the exact opposite as the first test and the control
barrel lasted longer. Conclusion Save your money!!!"

Ok so we are all convinced of this point and we cede it to you....but now please explain how this same wisdom you quote on the very next entry or comment of Gale's is as follows.....

"Do your rifle a favor and clean it well after every group and forget all the break in BS"

So is Gale only right about half the stuff he puts on the net and you quote...or what?

[Littlelebowski]

I understand you dont like my point of view, Trident. If you look at yhe words from our last little tiff over voodoo, you'll see that I believe in cleaning when accuracy drops off. Now, I know you think you have got that dastardly LL right where you want him but I will tell you that I believe in what has worked for me. I will remind you once again that I derive a bit of my beliefs from folks that used the SR25 as sniper weapon in combat.

Did you ever figure out how much accuracy you would lose by skipping a cleaning or two, or are you too cautious to try something that goes against conventional wisdom?

After all, what would Magpul Dynamics, Rifles Only, and Marine Scout Snipers know?

I have a feeling you are afraid to mess with your groups that you post on here. Try opening your mind and skipping a few cleanings. Prove me wrong. I have already tried both routes and I just wish I had all of that time back I spent cleaning.

[mike boufford]

Go to http://google.com

Type the below (not the "code" part) in exactly. You may substitute your own search criteria in the quotes. Press return or enter.

"barrel break in" site:m4carbine.net

Thanks for both links, they were very helpful.

[ALCOAR]

I understand you dont like my point of view, Trident. If you look at yhe words from our last little tiff over voodoo, you'll see that I believe in cleaning when accuracy drops off. Now, I know you think you have got that dastardly LL right where you want him but I will tell you that I believe in what has worked for me. I will remind you once again that I derive a bit of my beliefs from folks that used the SR25 as sniper weapon in combat.

Did you ever figure out how much accuracy you would lose by skipping a cleaning or two, or are you too cautious to try something that goes against conventional wisdom?

After all, what would Magpul Dynamics, Rifles Only, and Marine Scout Snipers know?

I have a feeling you are afraid to mess with your groups that you post on here. Try opening your mind and skipping a few cleanings. Prove me wrong. I have already tried both routes and I just wish I had all of that time back I spent cleaning.

The fact is I always respected your opinion, and your certainly entitled to owning your own opinion. I just have noticed your replies recently esp. on the topic of AR maintenance and cleaning to be very short and rather bold considering even the best among us still have yet to prove definitive science in these arena's. I just try to avoid calling out anybody's position unless is shortbus material and when I do, I damn sure try and bring the goods given it is going to take the goods in order to change minds on these subjects.

If you believe this is totally hocus pocus than I certainly don't mind learning why you feel that way...and I would have accepted Gale's opinion on the matter as yours...but when Gale agrees with what I believe that you happen to not believe I get very confused.

At least it's civil and that's the most important thing

[Littlelebowski]

My point is that I am speaking from personal experience that has been backed up by a lot of very knowledgeable folk. You seem to be saying "if you agree with Gale on this, then you MUST agree with Gale on EVERYTHING." I don't roll that way.

Look dude, all you have to do is shoot groups and not clean. Measure your results. Apply a little scientific method instead of shooting, cleaning, and telling everyone that must be the way to shoot tiny groups instead of just taking a chance. It's not like your barrel is going to die.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: I've already tried both ways - the silly break in method and incessant cleaning methods as opposed to just ****ing shooting the damned thing. I know which one worked for me.