So You Want To Buy A HK91/G3 Rifle...

[prdubi]

I don't want to sound lazy or anything but you can do research here on the topic.
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?optio...&id=2&Itemid=5

you will get different opinions on it.

http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/
Too many variations and setups to explain.

[SteyrAUG]

Bringing back this topic to life...

Questions:

What is the last year HK made a G3 (german manufacture)?

In what year the german G3 changed to the plastic, one piece grip/fire control group?

I've seen several types of plastic grips/FCG, in black, green or tan, different markings (S-E-F, 0-1-20, 0-1-3, etc.)ribbed with finger grooves or smooth all arouns (navy style). Which is the one the german army adopted? Is there a "definite" type (latest, or longest running production) or were they all made at the same time and for a long while?

Was the heavy buffer ever used in a military contract HK G3, straight from the factory?

Thanks in advance

Off the top of my head...

Not sure what year they stopped producing the G3. The military replaced it with the G36 but it is possible HK continued to produce it for a few more years.

For decades HK made stamped steel FCGs. It was probably sometime in the 80s that they went to a plastic one and the first was likely an S-E-F similar to the MP5. I know towards the end they had a picto lower, but keep in mind HK sometimes offered a variety of FCGs at the same time.

For the Germany Army G3, I think the stamped steel S-E-F would be accepted as the standard.

I don't think any standard G3s used a heavy buffer, but I think it may have been in the G3 SG1 rifle. I can't remember.

[Heckler&Coke]

I'm really not sure why everyone is skeptical of the PTR. Sure, there have been a couple hiccups when they transitioned to building their own US made parts, and their base "target" model does have shallow flutes (on purpose, mind you), but both are easily overcomed issues, and overall the PTR is extremely well made. They ar emade on licensed FMP tooling, welding is suburb, the receivers are the ONLY ones in spec on the market, they come stock with the most recent H&K sights, the furniture is up to snuff, they are fairly modular, and they come with "match" BBLs and recently with reduced trigger pulls from the factory...let's be honest here, a stock G3 trigger is like dragging a grand piano down a gravel road, and PTR has taken the time to reduce it to around 5-6lbs from the factory on the current rifles.

PTR is releasing a couple new models based on the traditional G3 this year. (Finally, thank god....) This may have been the one major thing hurting PTR, that until the GI, there was no mil-spec 91 capable of eating anything you feed it. Everyone bitched and moaned about the flute issue, and when I unknowingly bought a case of indian "nato" ammo and tried to use it in my first PTR, you better believe I was on the verge of trading it with cash on the SPOT for a standard M1A. (I had a NM at the time)

The new "classic" and GI models have the proper H&K flute depth as well as the profile. They will eat all the third world garbage surplus everyone bickers over, despite all standard PTRs already eating up crappy russian and bottom of the shelf commercial ammo like it's Fillet Mignon.

The standard "target" PTRs only have issue with tar sealed third world garbage and winchester white box. Despite the ammo warnign sheet, I've found DAG & Men german milsurp to work just fine, as well as Radway brit...The tar sealant found in less than modern ammunition gums up the flutes and causes failures to extract. This has been perhaps the only major downfall of the PTR, imho...


For $1,000, it's pretty hard to beat a PTR. Buying a FMP or SAR for $1,500+ seems pointless as the PTR is off the same exact FMP tooling minus the H&K milspec barrel (now an obsolete reason with the new line), and have fun using the later SARs with horribly out of spec aluminium receivers. PTR is by far the best "clone" on the market, and the quality rivals that of H&K and FMP....You could always buy a hesse, century, or SW, LOL....I've been there and done that, may as well throw money down the drain.





For full disclosure I do in fact own three PTRs, and with the new "MSR" and "classic" models coming out soon, that number is expected to grow, LOL.


Yes, I am now an unapologetic PTR homer, but for good reason. They are great rifles for the money. I ran my "K" through some pretty harsh condition and round count testing before deciding to buy another PTR, and I walked away impressed. It can survive mud, dirt, snow, rain, being frozen, and not being cleaned for a case of rusky ammo, but my the God's above forbid I stick a couple rounds of Indian ammo in it....

[a1fabweld]

I'm really not sure why everyone is skeptical of the PTR. Sure, there have been a couple hiccups when they transitioned to building their own US made parts, and their base "target" model does have shallow flutes (on purpose, mind you), but both are easily overcomed issues, and overall the PTR is extremely well made. They ar emade on licensed FMP tooling, welding is suburb, the receivers are the ONLY ones in spec on the market, they come stock with the most recent H&K sights, the furniture is up to snuff, they are fairly modular, and they come with "match" BBLs and recently with reduced trigger pulls from the factory...let's be honest here, a stock G3 trigger is like dragging a grand piano down a gravel road, and PTR has taken the time to reduce it to around 5-6lbs from the factory on the current rifles.

PTR is releasing a couple new models based on the traditional G3 this year. (Finally, thank god....) This may have been the one major thing hurting PTR, that until the GI, there was no mil-spec 91 capable of eating anything you feed it. Everyone bitched and moaned about the flute issue, and when I unknowingly bought a case of indian "nato" ammo and tried to use it in my first PTR, you better believe I was on the verge of trading it with cash on the SPOT for a standard M1A. (I had a NM at the time)

The new "classic" and GI models have the proper H&K flute depth as well as the profile. They will eat all the third world garbage surplus everyone bickers over, despite all standard PTRs already eating up crappy russian and bottom of the shelf commercial ammo like it's Fillet Mignon.

The standard "target" PTRs only have issue with tar sealed third world garbage and winchester white box. Despite the ammo warnign sheet, I've found DAG & Men german milsurp to work just fine, as well as Radway brit...The tar sealant found in less than modern ammunition gums up the flutes and causes failures to extract. This has been perhaps the only major downfall of the PTR, imho...


For $1,000, it's pretty hard to beat a PTR. Buying a FMP or SAR for $1,500+ seems pointless as the PTR is off the same exact FMP tooling minus the H&K milspec barrel (now an obsolete reason with the new line), and have fun using the later SARs with horribly out of spec aluminium receivers. PTR is by far the best "clone" on the market, and the quality rivals that of H&K and FMP....You could always buy a hesse, century, or SW, LOL....I've been there and done that, may as well throw money down the drain.





For full disclosure I do in fact own three PTRs, and with the new "MSR" and "classic" models coming out soon, that number is expected to grow, LOL.


Yes, I am now an unapologetic PTR homer, but for good reason. They are great rifles for the money. I ran my "K" through some pretty harsh condition and round count testing before deciding to buy another PTR, and I walked away impressed. It can survive mud, dirt, snow, rain, being frozen, and not being cleaned for a case of rusky ammo, but my the God's above forbid I stick a couple rounds of Indian ammo in it....

Damnit man, if I didn't feel the same way about the PTR lineup, I'd say you worked for the company! HAHA! I have 3 PTR's as well and they are great rifles. 2 of mine are early AW serial #'s which eat anything so far (havn't tried CAVIM yet though). The later AW serial # I have has not been beat up yet. If I have problem with it choking on garbage surplus ammo, I'll simply have it rebarreled for under $400. Not that big of a deal to me. The current lineup does have looser chamber specs & HK spec chamber flutes for "eat anything" reliability according to PTR. I'm itching to snag up a "GI" model. For the price, nothing compares to a PTR in the same caliber.

[Heckler&Coke]

Damnit man, if I didn't feel the same way about the PTR lineup, I'd say you worked for the company! HAHA! I have 3 PTR's as well and they are great rifles. 2 of mine are early AW serial #'s which eat anything so far (havn't tried CAVIM yet though). The later AW serial # I have has not been beat up yet. If I have problem with it choking on garbage surplus ammo, I'll simply have it rebarreled for under $400. Not that big of a deal to me. The current lineup does have looser chamber specs & HK spec chamber flutes for "eat anything" reliability according to PTR. I'm itching to snag up a "GI" model. For the price, nothing compares to a PTR in the same caliber.

I have no idea how I found this site, but this was the first thread I saw, and I actually took the time to read through it and felt I could add to the conversation since I have a tonne of experience with the PTR, and people don't seem to know much of it around here.

I have thought about buying the real deal, obviously 3 PTRs and quality optics clearly set me back at least 3 H&K91s worth, but the fact is, after handling and doing some digging, I feel zero need to pay $1,500 extra to have "Made in Germany" stamped on my rifle...there is just nothing to be gained, ESPECIALLY with the new "classics" coming...I'll more than likely have the MSR and classic wood as soon as they hit the shelves...again, anoither H&K91 worth...I just can't help myself, LOL.



(Though I am not xenophobic when it comes to sidearms, you best believe that "Made in Germany, HK" stamp is worth it, or Austria for that matter. I have been issued US made pistols, and everytime I feel the need to destroy it so noone may ever have to use it again... )

[KBAR-04]

I have served twice as a liaison with the German military. I saw plastic SEF lower housings in the mid 80s, along with green furniture. I believe the last US imported 91s were 1988. I think the Germans adopted the G36 in 1994 after reunification but the G3 lingered on for years, especially in the reserves.

My HK41, very similar to a 60s vintage G3:

[Heckler&Coke]

I have served twice as a liaison with the German military. I saw plastic SEF lower housings in the mid 80s, along with green furniture. I believe the last US imported 91s were 1988. I think the Germans adopted the G36 in 1994 after reunification but the G3 lingered on for years, especially in the reserves.

Today it still lingered, but not with reserves....

From what I have seen, there is a lot of renewed service with the G3, I've even seen the KSK carrying them around, and it is coming back out in fair numbers as a "DMR", not unlike our dusting off the M14. Too bad the US and Germany have a habit of sawing their surplus rifles in half lately, despite the need of such rifles in specific operations and areas...


But I'm sure everyone will buy new and shiny HK417s in part of the M.I.C. instead of old tried and true designs already in the armory by the millions...

[Punisher1336]

I bought a HK93 many years ago. Made in W Germany, its chambered for 5.56x45. It was originally tan but I had it sent out and refinished in black. I also have one of those Special Weapons SW5, which is the HK94 clone. Couldnt ever see getting anything as close to a HK94 so I bought it probably in the first or second year of production.

[DiabhailGadhar]

Sorry to bring up an old necropost fella's but I have an itch for a 91 series and its driving me crazy..any way are the old SACO models any good and whats the story with them?

[SteyrAUG]

Sorry to bring up an old necropost fella's but I have an itch for a 91 series and its driving me crazy..any way are the old SACO models any good and whats the story with them?

SACO (Security Arms Co) was simply the importer for HK rifles from 1974 to 1975. Heckler & Koch [Arlington, VA] — Took over the US import business themselves in 1976. Prior to 1974 the HK91 was known as the HK41 and marked accordingly.