7.62x25

[Essohbe]

Anyone around here got an upper chambered for Tok? I've seen a couple different ones but never really talked to anyone who had one.
Mostly, the prices put me off. I wondered what you'd do for magazines.

[Ilove2shoot]

Yes, I have been playing with that round in AR15 rifles for about 8 years now. I originally used CZ sub-gun mags in a Cav Arms lower. My latest build is a piston upper with a magwell block from Heavy Metal Co. that uses PPsh magazines. Runs like a raped ape on semi and full auto.

[LMTRocks]

If you're a DIYer or not, here's HMC's linkity:

http://www.heavymetalco.com/content.aspx?Page=Tokarev

This is going to be my next build, in 7.5" with a YHM 762 QD Phantom for the 15oz Ti can I plan on getting next year.

[Nightvisionary]

I recently sold off a transferable Yugo M56 subgun in 7.62x25. That is a great round. It chronyed out at 1800 fps through the 10 barrel. Ammo is still cheap on the surplus market. A minor redesign using a lightweight alloy spitzer bullet would be a perfect PDW round.

[Makintrax73]

A good friend of mine has a 7.62x25 conversion. I don't know the specifics on parts, but I can at least give you a few things to think about based on his experience.

In my mind this is not a plug and play option the way building a 5.56 AR is. Mostly because of the magazines. He spent A LOT of time getting the mags to work right, up to an including welding up mag catch slots and re-positioning them. All that in addition to building the upper itself, which I guess is no big deal if you have the tools.

No bolt hold back on empty mag from what I understand. Not a huge deal I guess, but it is a negative in my mind.

Reliability can be quite good, but his still isn't "perfect" the way so many standard AR's seem to be. I think he said he has 2 or 3 malfs in the first 700 rounds. I did a short carbine course with him a couple weeks ago and his 7.62x25 had 1 problem in a little over 400 rounds. <---I guess it goes without saying that it took some work to get to this point.

Ammo is still available cheap - I think $90+shipping for a case. It's corrosive and from what I have seem literally EVERY single case splits at the neck when you shoot it. I guess some extra clean up is worth it when ammo is less than 1/2 price.

Not sure about magazine availability, but from what I understand the mags the conversions use are surplus mags. I'm not sure if they are made any more so you would want to find a source and stock up before they become hard to find.

Very, very easy to shoot. Recoil much milder than even low power 223 loads.

Overall I would say - probably worth it if you shoot a LOT and are willing to spend the money now on lots of ammo and mags while they are still available.

[Essohbe]

+1 on the magwell for the PPSh mags.

"No bolt hold back on empty mag from what I understand. Not a huge deal I guess, but it is a negative in my mind."

- Couldn't you fabricate some kind of hold-open follower in the mag itself, like some of the Saiga mags? That'd be an interesting idea and doesn't seem to hard to do.

"Ammo is still available cheap... It's corrosive and from what I have seem literally EVERY single case splits at the neck when you shoot it."

- Yea, that's the Polish stuff, circle 21. I've been shooting this crap in my M57. It's not all bad but the majority of it has the cracked case necks but I guess you get what you pay for. Hey, it was cheap (CAI). I've shot the Russian and something else I couldnt' identify, probably Romanian and it wasn't much better but the necks didn't crack.



What is the ID barrel dimensions for these ARs? The Tok is .31 so you ream out a .308 barrel then?

What kind of velocity would you think you'd get from a 16" barrel?

[LMTRocks]

I read in SGN the 16" perm'd FH model pushed romanian 86gr to 1820fps. I also thought I read that Tok was .309

[Ilove2shoot]

I read in SGN the 16" perm'd FH model pushed romanian 86gr to 1820fps. I also thought I read that Tok was .309

12.5" barrel on mine and Romainian is hitting 1850 fps.

this cartridge originates from the mauser cartridge so is not the standard russian .311 sizing. you can use the .311 barrels, but will give up velocity. some guys on Uzitalk are using the .311 barrels in the Mac11s and are giving up a few hundred fps compared to the .308 barrels........that takes half the fun out of this cartridge.

[Nightvisionary]

I read in SGN the 16" perm'd FH model pushed romanian 86gr to 1820fps. I also thought I read that Tok was .309

A 16 inch barrell should do 1800+ no problem since I was getting that velocity from a 10 inch barrel using Sellier & Bellot and Privi. Might be able to match M1 carbine muzzle velocity with the right ammo.

[Makintrax73]

"No bolt hold back on empty mag from what I understand. Not a huge deal I guess, but it is a negative in my mind."

- Couldn't you fabricate some kind of hold-open follower in the mag itself, like some of the Saiga mags? That'd be an interesting idea and doesn't seem to hard to do.

I know my buddy was talking about this and I thought he mentioned he had some ideas about how to work around this issue.

The problem is that the bolt catch on an AR is at the back of the AR mag well, and the mag well adapter for the 7.62x25 mags has move the narrower mags forward so the cartridge come out of the mag and right into the feed ramp. Thus you have a situation where the back of the mag follower is a fair distance from the hold open that it needs to actuate. I presume the bolt catch is regular steel so you might be able to weld an arm on a bolt catch to extend it up to beyond the mag block......but

.........but I know many eastern bloc weapons do not have a bolt hold open so I am not even sure if the mag followers are designed for a hold open. Insert a standard AR mag in a lower and you'll see what I mean. There has to be a block at the back of the follower designed to trigger the hold open and it can't interfere with the rounds in the mag otherwise it defeats the purpose.