What do you consider enough lumens?

[seb5]

There's always going to be variables, smoke, fog, rain, beam focus, LED, etc. that will effect the amount of useable light from any light source. I tend to go with the more is better school of thought in theory but smaller is better in practice.

After using a mini Scout at a course last year I traded my other Scout for a mini and went on. I like lighter weight and for me the mini Scout is a good balance. In a perfect world a 60-65 lumen light will work at 50 yards. When you throw in the variables it might not.

On our SWAT rifles we had and still run a few LED Nitrolons. I've been replacing them with the G2X's as needed. 200 lumens is better than 80 or a 110.

Another issue I've seen is the ratings often don't mean anything. You've got to see the light to know how bright it is. Even with our Surefires they changed their ratings and sometimes wonder if they changed anything but the writing on the label. Sure fire was known for under rating and others for over rating.

The bottom line for me is have a light. I prefer mini Scouts on my rifles and X300's on my pistols but still have a couple of TLR's and Nitrolons.

[ra2bach]

This contributes A LOT to the discussion, and I'm not sure why ra2bach feels otherwise.

I had a Fenix TK35 which uses and Cree XM-L and puts out 800+ lumens, but other lights I've had which use smaller, less powerful emitters in deeper more focused reflectors threw light further. I think flood/spill vs. throw is a far more important factor to consider when picking a light for a certain application than lumen output.

A high lumen (300+), floody beam is great for searching outdoors in a tightly packed neighborhood, but worthless in a more open area where a light with lower lumens but a tighter reflector would rule. And neither one of those lights would be ideal indoors. Ambient light plays into all of this as well.

To me, the most well rounded type of light is one where there is a primary switch for on and off, and a separate switch or mode ring for changing brightness. That way, you can adjust ahead of time if you know if you are going to be inside or outside, but there are no worries about having to cycle through modes to get to what you want.

That said, for work (patrol cop) I tend to stick with single mode lights for simplicity. And when stuck with only one mode, I would rather deal with the disadvantages of light that is TOO bright for certain situations than a light which isn't bright enough. If I wash out my vision with too much light, I can generally rest assured that anyone on the other end is feeling it far worse than I am.

what I meant was he dropped a statement without furthering it with a solution. it's like a teacher I had once who would walk by and look at your work and and say, "no, that's not right", and then keep walking - not very helpful if your idea is to help someone understand... if it's not right, what am I doing wrong, is there anything right about it or do I scrap everything and start over, etc., etc...

you on the other hand have provided examples that give a baseline that can be compared. that does further the discussion.

however, it's understood that lumens can vary greatly in handheld lights while form factor less so. probably the best advice would be to define the mission first and then taking into consideration the tools appropriate to that, whether flood or spot beam and lumens required to fill that...

[toasterlocker]

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying, I know what you mean now.

[NCPatrolAR]

For years SureFire has recommended 60-65 lumens as being the lowest output level a person should accept. For me, the lowest I generally want to go is around 80 with a max, if working in an urban environment, of 120-130. I've been in a situation or two where the portable sun I was carrying (10X w/ 500+ lumen output) reflected off of a mirror and messed me and my team mates up for a few moments.

The LMS formula is pretty sound if you were to stick with it.

[rushca01]

Good discussion.

Seb5, I forgot our experience at class last fall. LED and Incan bulbs make a difference when using the light when dust kicks up. Thanks for bringing that back up because there is no free lunch.

[Mr blasty]

Good discussion.

Seb5, I forgot our experience at class last fall. LED and Incan bulbs make a difference when using the light when dust kicks up. Thanks for bringing that back up because there is no free lunch.

I haven't had the chance to experience this yet. Whats the difference?

[rushca01]

I haven't had the chance to experience this yet. Whats the difference?

I was at a low light class with EAG last November and while shooting into the berm there was a bunch of fine dust in the air. The LED lights, even the most powerful, would illuminate all the dust and made the target difficult to see. Think about driving in fog with your highbeams on, kind of like that. The incan lights seemed to cut through the dust much better. There is a trade off as incans have a fillament that can break where the LED's don't. No free lunch.