Comments on a gun safe for AR

[Carnut]

I took it off the pallet and bolted it to the concrete floor today. I put some firearms in it and passed on my gun cabinet on to my son.

[indawire]

I realize it's probably too late unless your building a house but - many times the foundation space below the front porch or steps just gets backfilled. This can be small like 4'-0"x4'-0" or much larger depending on what's above. Concrete walls and floor, poured ceiling on Q deck. If you can plan it, have the foundation crew cast the right size opening for a metal door buck. I've seen just the safe doors advertised, just have to plan for electric and ventilation penetrations. I've built some elaborate ones and usually the client is thrilled with this "free" walk in safe. The door can be hidden with a rolling bookcase or storage shelf in front of it Just an option for those building.

[WillBrink]

I am planning on buying a gun safe. Currently, I am looking at Dicks sporting goods. They have a Field and Stream 32 gun model for $699 on sale. This safe is 29½" wide. I want it fireproof and under 32" wide. I am planning on building it into a closet above the basement stairs.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm not a safe expert, but I have done a fair amount of research on the topic, and what follows may be of help to those looking at safes/gun safes. When it comes to safes (and the term "safe" we will get to shortly...) you truly get what you pay for. You don't have spend a fortune for a good container, but in my view, it makes no sense to protect expensive guns, your wife's jewelry, and essential documents in a "safe" gotten from the sporing goods store.

It's essential to understand what usually passes for a "safe" is nothing of the kind. Companies spend a lot of time on fancy paint jobs, impressive handles, and marketing to convince people they are getting a true safe. However, the vast majority of what's sold are Residential Security Container (RSCs)

Companies give you a shiny fancy looking door, etc, but at the end of the day it's at best RSC rated, and not a "safe" as viewed by anyone who actually knows/installs real safes. It's important to note, not all RSCs are created equal, but when you look at what the actual RSC UL rating means, it will make you cringe:

"UL rated safes that carry the RSC label offer protection from tool attacks against the door of the safe for five minutes. Safes that carry the TL-15 and TL-30 classification offer protection from tool attacks against the safe's door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes rated TLTR-15 or TLTR-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against the door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes that are rated TLTRX6-15 or TLTRX6-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against any part of the safe for either 15 or 30 minutes. Of course, the price increases with the protection level."

If what you have/are considering, is UL Rated (and I wouldn't buy it if were not, but that's me and if there are any real lock smiths/safe installers here who wish to comment/correct me, please do) look at the inside door panel, there should be a tag that lists its UL rating.

Another important issue, especially for gun safes, most companies use simple gypsum board is an insulator, which draws moisture. They may use fancy terms, but on opening a wall, its gypsum board.

Higher end safes will use a composite of some sort, that is better all around for both fire and security. To the best of my knowledge, only AMSEC uses a composite in the lower end BF series products for example which improves it's security as well as fire rating.


Budget is the essential issue here, as you can get a cheap 12g gun locker or a TL30 AMSEC gun safe, and much inbetween. It's often a good idea to decide on what to spend on a safe as a % of what it is you are trying to protect, as well as other factors, such as additional security (alarms, quality of locks, doors, etc, etc) but securing things yo don't want stolen means not putting it in a cheap metal box that's intended to prevent kids and "snatch and grab" types.

Second consideration is location, as a real safe has limitations where you can put it due to their weight and size.

As mentioned, not all RSCs are created equal. For example, the AMSEC BF series is as good as some companies B rates safes, etc.. and probably the best of the RSCs on the market.

Finally, no matter what you get, have it bolted down. I can't tell you how many times I have read about safes simply being carried off by a few guys with a hand truck, with the owner (ex owner!) always being shocked! If a few guys with a sturdy hand truck can get it in your house, what makes anyone believe the reverse is not true???

If you do everything right and it still gets broken into/taken away, 99.9%, it's an inside job and someone knew exactly what you had and came prepared, so pick your friends well!

If you have the budget and need to protect an expensive collection (and people willing to put their collection of fine guns into a cheap RSC are asking for trouble...). I believe AMSEC is the only company that makes a TL30 UL listed gun safe.

It's a monster...See:

http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes-HS-main.htm

That's my basic run down/advice on safes that comes from my research, discussions with many a safe installer, etc. Feel free to add your thoughts. I'm sure some of you can confirm what I said above about safes simply being taken away during your work experiences as LE.

Source:

Gun Safe Info

[Sam]

Two words for you: window coverings.

A cheap set of drapes or mini-blinds will do wonders.

Simple solution.

[Sam]

It has an electronic keypad which is nice.

I actually looked at this very same safe at two Costco near me. The above is the main reason why I didn't buy it. I prefer the dial combination lock. I've seen a couple of electronic locks failed. Yes I know it has the key, but the sight of the keypad was the deal breaker.

BTW, the fire rating is less than 30 minutes, typical for the price range.