LMT .308 MWS Pictures show us your setup

[SOW_0331]

I don't care for the DMR stock I just received. The cheek piece is too damn small. Why they did that makes no sense to me. No issues with scope height. I'll most likely be selling it and sticking with the SOPMOD Stock.

Have you sold the stock yet? If not...I may be interested in an exchange of sorts. If you decide to sell or trade PM me before you post in the EE please. I would really appreciate the chance to get my mitts on one without the NIB price. Thanks Sir.

[asolo]

Is the optic too high up for you? Have you tried lower rings? I have to run lower rings on my .308 ARs.

I have an ADM Recon mount with a Vortex viper pst 6-24x50. With the large objective I cant really get a lower mount. I feel like I am having to pick my head off too far from the stock. I definately need more elevation. Next long range course will be this year and Id like to be more prepared.

[SOW_0331]

I think key mod is ugly as well....with that said it should be a clue when delta turns in their 1913 pic railed KAC uppers for new KAC key mod uppers.

Eta. My point is they should be able to stay with the trends and trends are keymod and m lok. It shouldn't be that difficult to reprogram the cnc machine.

I'm not saying this to make a dig on you personally, but I wanted to mention this sort of comment real quick and why it might not have been such a poor move, or one made out of ignorance, for LMT to not have rolled out their SHOT Show KeyMod surprise. These comments seem to pop up every few pages in any thread regardless of who the manufacturer is. My thoughts on this are;

If this particular SMU had really completely switched from the picatinny rails to keymod (I say if because I've read this particular unit has adopted three different weapon systems in the past two days...) I fail to see how that would be a good cause for the cost/benefit of a new rail for a quality competitor like LMT. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I wasnt a fan of the LM8 slick rail for the same reason I don't see the KMR being an improvement for the MWS in particular. Would elements of these D units benefit from the lightest, most bare bones streamlined rifles? Sure. But those are designed for a particular part of a specific task, a task you would probably never be bringing an MWS308 along for anyway. These are also going to be carried by guys with JPCs and two or three spare mags and the weapon is NOT designed to be carried for long sustained operations with a broad spectrum of mission taskers. I wouldn't pull all the Mk48s off the line because a Mk18 is shorter and lighter.

So why would LMT not go out of their way to make w KeyMod rail? Maybe they will for their free float rifles though the rail isn't why people buy LMT uppers. If someone is wanting to build their ultra-light dream gun because it's cool for three gun matches, the market is already flooded with some great KM and MLock options. LMT isn't losing sales for lack of making the best rail for balancing your rifle on the kitchen floor and taking pictures. They're filling gov contracts for the Brits equivalent of an M110/Mk11/SR25 and that's a weapon that KeyMod simply isn't going to be the best option for. As for civilian sales, nobody is buying a heavyweight monolithic upper for weight saving. This gun is a brick shithouse and it works that way, reduced recoil on a semi-auto precision rifle means faster follow up shots and less change in natural point of aim. If I'm going to be employing a gun that will have me loading the bipods, I don't want a thin rail that might flex. And as much as I hear that the KMR won't flex, I've yet to find one that I can't get to flex when I put my gusto behind it with full gear.

Then you have your other caliber options, certainly a major draw for me and many other MWS shooters. A DA assault team isn't going to be doing barrel and caliber changes based on the range they'll be engaging targets from. Now if I were able to choose what I brought on an Op that started as a patrol to a staging area, a movement to an FFP 800m from the objective for R/S and over watch, then on to join the inner cordon in a small village or populated area, I would take my MWS with a 16" .308 barrel and ruck out a mag and barrel for a 20" 6.5CM and a 14.5" .338Fed. None of those rounds are particularly soft shooters, and the ounces saved for a KeyMod that may restrict my ability to quickly access weapon mounted accessories are the least of my concerns.

Sure ounces make pounds. But in a gunfight or a long term operation with no known extract date, I need all my weapons gear where it's supposed to be. Since Delta was the name dropped (is Delta one small group of guys? Hmm...) I fail to see what their weapon choice would mean to another ODA tasked with FID, or an MSOT doing the same, or a SEAL Team doing Recon & Surveillance on the ridge of a mountain range. LMT is filling a contract that can be used by nearly any unit for a specific role. Their monolithic uppers are chosen for a reason and selling them in the most widely compatible format makes perfect sense when you cannot change the rails. Even if they were to run the CNC or Cad program it would probably be for the MRP and it just doesn't seem to be in that high a demand when there are a dickload of KM rails for the niche user.

I remember the same thing being said about .300 Blk, it was the 5.56 killer and everyone should switch over to it because "units that shall not be named *wink*" are using it on bad guys. Yeah, I'm still regretting being so invested in common NATO calibers...sure.

[SOW_0331]

Just be careful not to step in the bullshit. Something may be a fad, even a fad has its purpose when used right by the right people. Just remember next time you hear that the Recon SEALs in the 75th Delta Regiment are using certain gear it's either...

A. Bullshit from a manufacturer or rep who will say the same thing next week about another product
B. If true, a violation of whatever NDA someone would have to sign to be privy to that information
C. If true, likely completely irrelevant to the average shooter all the way up to other SOF units

Though from my observation, it's usually A and C combined. B is pretty rare which means I usually don't waste time with whatever they have to say.

[Plasman]

I have an ADM Recon mount with a Vortex viper pst 6-24x50. With the large objective I cant really get a lower mount. I feel like I am having to pick my head off too far from the stock. I definately need more elevation. Next long range course will be this year and Id like to be more prepared.

I use an LT-120 (center of optic 1.285" above rail). Your scope should fit with that (Vortex says the objective is 2.26").

[jerrysimons]

Great article!

Accuracy testing began with the 6.5 Creedmoor and Hornady’s 140-grain A-MAX match ammunition. This load has produced some impressive groups, and the LMT was no exception. My best five-shot group at 100 yards measured 0.5 inches. Recoil was minimal—the carbine barely moved. This prompted me to test the LM8MWS with just its iron sights. LMT’s new sights lend themselves to consistency, as proven by a 0.95-inch group with this ammunition at 100 yards. Granted, this kind of shooting takes some practice, but it shows the inherent accuracy of the rifle.

Next I switched to the .260 Remington. While hunting ammunition in this caliber is prevalent, factory match-grade ammunition is hard to come by. Most handload their own for competitions, and I used a load I had cooked up for a custom build with 140-grain Berger bullets in the LM8MWS. In the custom build, 0.25-inch groups were the norm, with several closer to 0.2 inches. The LMT came very close, with the best group measuring 0.27 inches. This can be an incredibly accurate caliber with some real reach, and it’s one of the most popular calibers for serious precision rifle competitors.

Since the 7.62mm is the bread and butter of this platform, I tested the LM8MWS with several loads. All of the loads I tested were accurate, with the M118 LR ammo creating the smallest group, which measured 0.52 inches. Everything else was tighter than 1.5 inches, with most hovering around the 1-inch mark. As I am old enough to remember when ARs in this caliber were lucky to create groups tighter than 3 inches, the accuracy of these modern rifles continues to amaze me. Early in my precision rifle review days, bolt actions with this level of accuracy were rare, let alone semi-autos—so the LMT is truly impressive.

- See more at: http://www.tactical-life.com/firearm...-receiver-left

[jerrysimons]

Pic thread: courtesy of Recoil Mag http://www.recoilweb.com/shot-show-2...age-56993.html



MWS raw forging


http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjo...hot-show-2010/

[rushca01]

Just be careful not to step in the bullshit. Something may be a fad, even a fad has its purpose when used right by the right people. Just remember next time you hear that the Recon SEALs in the 75th Delta Regiment are using certain gear it's either...

A. Bullshit from a manufacturer or rep who will say the same thing next week about another product
B. If true, a violation of whatever NDA someone would have to sign to be privy to that information
C. If true, likely completely irrelevant to the average shooter all the way up to other SOF units

Though from my observation, it's usually A and C combined. B is pretty rare which means I usually don't waste time with whatever they have to say.

Vickers himself is the one who relayed this information which he got from his sources. It's a fact, the unit turned in their KAC URX Picatinny railed uppers for KAC URX Keymod uppers. This isn't a OPSEC issue either... All I'm saying is that the MWS is a great platform, I'm a fan of it. I think they missed the boat by not releasing an MWS upper that is trending with the market. All the major rail manufacturers are offering keymod, 1913, and m-lok.

I dont get hung up on what end users use what platform. It's only in LMT's benefit to update the rail. At the very least they should have inlcuded steel inserts on their direct attach screw holes for the slick side upper.

[rushca01]

Pic thread: courtesy of Recoil Mag http://www.recoilweb.com/shot-show-2...age-56993.html



MWS raw forging


http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjo...hot-show-2010/

The raw forging looks like the MRP not the MWS, same principal applies and cool pic. I got handle one of the first MRPs made when I was at SHOT in 2012.

[SOW_0331]

Vickers himself is the one who relayed this information which he got from his sources. It's a fact, the unit turned in their KAC URX Picatinny railed uppers for KAC URX Keymod uppers. This isn't a OPSEC issue either... All I'm saying is that the MWS is a great platform, I'm a fan of it. I think they missed the boat by not releasing an MWS upper that is trending with the market. All the major rail manufacturers are offering keymod, 1913, and m-lok.

I dont get hung up on what end users use what platform. It's only in LMT's benefit to update the rail. At the very least they should have inlcuded steel inserts on their direct attach screw holes for the slick side upper.

I get what you're saying and to an extent I agree. If there are potential buyers who are dead set on getting a KeyMod rail, they may buy something else. In a traditional business sense, that could be a loss for LMT. If they were hurting for business or had staked their reputation on somewhat "custom" rifles (like LaRue for example) the decision to stay out of the KeyMod trend could be all around bad for business.

My opinion is that very few end users, be it civilian or for the various mil/LE contracts LMT holds, are asking for KeyMod in their already heavy high quality monilithic 7.62 guns. Whatever criteria it is that leads one to come to the LMT conclusion as the best for their needs seems to be very unlikely to see KM as a make or break option. If someone wants a lightweight 7.62 they can get the DPMS Gen2 and use any of the dozens of KeyMod options. They can get a Ruger or Sig or and M&P10 and throw a thin AR rail on it and seek out lightweight parts. And they'll probably never need to mount a PEQ and IR illuminator, clip on thermal or NV, and they might not need a heavy rifle that can fire at the sustained or rapid rate for hours waiting work exfil. The current demand from the MoD is for exactly that.

Now the D unit, whichever one that is that made that decision to go with the KAC, that's what they needed to fit their specific need. Their needs will differ from the needs of several other ODAs in theater who are doing long term FID mission taskers with minimal re-kit and much longer time on target. The D guys will probably have some old school railed M110s on their outer and inner cordon prior to their landing. Or so I would assume, based on some movies I've watched. They went from one KAC rail system to another, the manufacturer even does the upgrade. KAC has been in the KeyMod industry for a few Gens of the URX I recall. Why would that left seat-right seat dictate what LMT should be putting out. It's not as easy from my limited machinist experience as plugging in a new CAD program. LMT would have to find their own design that wouldn't land them in court for patent/copyright issues. They'd have to cut several prototype rails (as one piece uppers) after engineers were able to work out the program, then publish a new set of specs and tolerances, retool the machines and fixtures, and train employees to inspect the rails for QC in a completely different format than every rail they've handled.

Could LMT do it? Obviously, they're good at what they do. Would they benefit from the limited demand enough to make it worthwhile? Debatable.

Finally, my wallet is confused by the statement that Mr. Vickers made. This quote is from a recent thread;


Quote Originally Posted by Larry Vickers View Post
Just a little tidbit gents for the 416 haters out there- I just got some info that one specialized end user currently using 416's tested it against several ( read that as most) current DI and piston guns to find a potential replacement and the result of the test was.....

The HK416 will stay in place as the issue assault rifle

None of the other guns came close to it performance wise from what I was told- you may not like HK but based on what they found during their test no one makes a better gun as of right now

That's all I can say - spin it however you want but this organization can and will buy whatever they want to get the job done; if there was something better they would be using it or in the process of buying it

Be safe

LAV"


So...which SMU is doing what? Is one of them wrong, therefor not as intelligent as the other, for choosing pretty much the opposite weapon system as the other? And why should that matter if I'm making an informed purchase after clearly outlining my needs and intent? If it doesn't matter....why mention it at all.