Why aren't there any decent matches for ARs?

[Mr. Sush]

AirSoft seems to be more popular than Practical Carbine meets

Take a few days off and go to one of the shoots that Colorado Multi-Gun puts on at Camp Guernsey, WY. You'll get to shoot your AR as far as you ever want to....

[Robb Jensen]

Found this on the Enos forums, it's quite intriguing.

"Competition, is a crucial part of the process, in the mastery of a
chosen art. Its a demonstration, by the practitioner, that his path,
his way in the journey of that mastery was either correct, or in need
of further refinement.

Classes are fine, their purpose is to suggest the way, through the
shared experience of a master. They indicate right direction, encourage
discipline, and a process to practice. But in the case of arms, in the
end you must take what you see, what you hear, what you read, and what
you experience and turn it into your own way. It is ultimately your
endeavor, and to stand in the arena before others, and demonstrate your
way reveals to all and mainly yourself whether you put your faith in
the truth or just a facade of smoke.

To deny yourself the opportunity to experience such an aspect of the
journey is a mistake."---unknown

[blackscot]

I met Brian at one of the USPSA Nationals at Fredericksburg, quite awhile ago now (1995 I think). Really good guy. Some of his writing can get a little on the cosmic side, but has lots of more practical stuff too.

......"Competition, is.....a demonstration......either correct, or in need of further refinement.

i.e. good way to tell what works and what doesn't (if it can go wrong, it will at a match).

......turn it into your own way.....stand in the arena before others, and demonstrate your way reveals.....whether you put your faith in the truth or just a facade of smoke......

i.e. definitely NOT one-size-fits-all.

[Robb Jensen]

I met Brian at one of the USPSA Nationals at Fredericksburg, quite awhile ago now (1995 I think). Really good guy. Some of his writing can get a little on the cosmic side, but has lots of more practical stuff too.

i.e. good way to tell what works and what doesn't (if it can go wrong, it will at a match).

i.e. definitely NOT one-size-fits-all.

Brian is an interesting guy........I used to think a lot of what he said was 'way out there' until I starting experiencing exactly what he was talking about.

A couple of other guys who are good at explaining/showing you what's going on with shooting is Saul Kirsch and Steve Anderson.

Here's some from Steve Anderson:

"The human body, especially under stress is very bad at measuring time. Therefore, trying to shoot fast is always (FOR ME) a bad idea.

Break the shots when the sights tell you to.

I have experienced beautiful, slow motion moments where the eyes spoke to the fingers and the brain just watched. Always a superior score.

Problem is, you can't make yourself do it. Thinking about not thinking is the same as thinking. (I think. )

Maybe this is meditating while shooting.

The other problem is, when you have some success at this whole shoot your pace idea, it's easy to start thinking that you've conquered some great obstacle and go out and hose one. Upon which the cycle re-starts.

Ah, the mental game.

On the holster/grip, I would suggest (after ditching a problem holster) 50 draws a night to a sight picture only, without pulling the trigger. Use a smallish target.
Your index will thank you.

The bullet doesn't care how good/bad your grip is, it goes where the sights tell it to go."

---SA

"Oh yeah, you probably are not wasting as much time as you think getting the sights aligned. "

[blackscot]

Great stuff there!

".....I have experienced beautiful, slow motion moments where the eyes spoke to the fingers and the brain just watched.....

+1

Tim ran me through a shotgun stage a couple of years ago that was exactly like that. Everything seemed so.....automatic. I felt more like spectator than participant.

Must have made an impression on my RO. At the end he was grinning from ear-to-ear, looked at me and said simply "So how ya feelin' man?"

I hardly knew how to respond.

[wild_wild_wes]

We only restrict firing positions for safety and/or for "drills" stages. If the point is to shoot prone, kneeling, standing from 3 positions then you're going to have to shoot from those positions. Otherwise the shooter is free to take a knee, shoot standing, whatever, so long as it is safe and doesn't result in rounds leaving the range.

Our scoring is intended to reward accuracy over speed and to reflect the real-world implications of shooting a friendly or missing a threat; either one gets you penalized 30 seconds.

We use standard IDPA targets. To neutralize a target, you need at least 2 shots in the -0 or at least 3 shots in the -1 or better. -3 don't count for anything. In other words, you can have one COM and one headshot and the target is "neutralized", or you can have one COM and two -1 for the same result. Targets are score as either neutralized or not. It makes scoring very quick, and allows even the most inexperienced of our shooters to help score.

Could you give us a quick outline of the carbine match you created?

[rob_s]

Could you give us a quick outline of the carbine match you created?

I pretty much have as best as I can in previous posts in this thread.
Unfortunately our club website is undergoing reconstruction (for the last 6 months+ ) but the description posted on it before it was taken down pretty much covered what I outlined above.

I basically try to take things I learn in various training classes, both handgun and carbine, and incorporate them into the matches. I try to reinforce certain tactics through course design rather than by making up limits to how the stage can be shot or things of that nature. For example, I try to keep reloads with the rifle to stages 25 yards+, and do transitions at closer range. I also generally start the stages with downloaded magazines to force either a reload or a transition (or we just put out lots and lots of targets ). To keep people from "golfing" and changing guns or optics we'll try to include some close in and on-the-move targets into any stage that requires longer range shots.

[wild_wild_wes]

Sounds like your course is mainly running and gunning, Rob. I'd like to see a match with that, plus a second half where shots are taken out to 500 yards or so.

[rob_s]

Sounds like your course is mainly running and gunning, Rob. I'd like to see a match with that, plus a second half where shots are taken out to 500 yards or so.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about the longer range stuff. True, we are limited by our facility to shots under 100, and approximately 130 at most shooting diagonally, but I'm really fine with that. Shooting out to 500 may be fun for some, but the application in a "defensive" scenario is pretty much non-existent. Frankly, even 100 is probably pushing it in that case.

[Barbara]

If there isn't one in your area, start one..the ACTS format Tony mentioned works great, and is primarily a carbine match.

Currently, there are matches only in Michigan and Arizona but there's no reason it can't be expanded. It also helps to have a standardized format.

ARs aren't required by any means but that's what the majority choose to use.

Tons of photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/resq47/...7594587307207/