Taking my first carbine course ... looking for some gear pointers.

[kelly neal]

Your most important accessory is a good zero on your rifle. Show up with a WELL zeroed gun. Most class shooting is fairly coarse in term of accuracy requirements but a good zero is important nonetheless.

As for the chest rig v. belt mag pouch, I typically reload out of a belt pouch as it tends to be much faster. But I sometimes wear a chest rig (in case Ivan invades - Wolverines!). Even then I feed my belt pouch from my chest rig if possible.

Unless you are used to wearing a bunch of stuff, I think you will be better off running a class as "slick" as possible.

I also agree that skills cannot be initially learned under great stress but once you have the basics somewhat down you have to apply stress.

Finally be safe. Every class I go to, I get covered by more than one muzzle.

Did I mention that you should have a zeroed rifle??

[Acespeedy]

Looks like everyone has made some good suggestions, but if you have a backup carbine and pistol I would take it also(have it zeroed). If you run an enhanced trigger guard your hand will appreciate it or else just use the soft foam ear plug fix. Good luck, enjoy.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

1. Read Magsz thread on his thoughts for prepping for a class, magpul in this case. Great thread
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32972

2. Great advice to zero your rifle. Talk about stress induced learning, nothing like watching someone flail around a target trying to remember which way POI moves with front or rear sight movement.


As to the stress induced learning, yes learning calculus with someone screaming you will probably not work. Shooting, when it really counts, will be a stressful experience- get used to it. A good instructor will be able to turn it on and off at appropriate times.

[Eric]

Show up with a WELL zeroed gun.

Amen! While just about every class will include a confirmation zero on the first day, it drives me nuts when guys show up not having a clue where their POI is, are unable to dial it in withing a reasonable period of time and burn up class time on something that should have been squared away already. On a realted note, get about 1k rounds through it to work out any bugs ahead of time.

[Ranger325]

I don't think anyone is talking about a training class where you're screamed at from the moment you get out of your car on TD1 to the moment you're handed your certificate at the end of TD3. I've never even heard of a class like that in the commercial firearms training market.

But I have seen a LOT of people react to the ratcheting up of stress as simple as a raised voice, a timer, and a harsh word upon failure by the figurative curling up in the fetal position, poking thumb in mouth, and retreating to a position of "I don't learn well while getting yelled at". There is a HUGE difference between the two.

Now that there is funny!! I'm an old guy and when I took my first civilian class a few years back I was expecting Ranger School City Week!!
Was I wrong...................happily.

[sboza]

To the OP, the highly knowledgable members here have given you lots of great advice. I'll just add that if it were me personally, I would NOT run an optic for a marksmanship class. If you can shoot your carbine with irons, you can shoot it with optics. The reverse isn't true. Save the optics for advanced classes, especially tactics oriented classes and real world. Invest in a decent weapon mounted light instead for now. Just my opinion.

Neville - You're can't be very good at what you do, Masters degree or not, if you walk around spouting off universal statements like "humans can't learn new things under stress." I'm sure one of your profs spouted that gem out and you ran with it but the bottom line is that everyone's different. I'm sure modern learning theory is more effective for MOST people, especially in large groups. But I've learned lots of things under stress. More importantly, I've learned to learn (adapt) under stress. I have gone from being yelled at and messing up the rest of the drill because I'm focusing on what I messed up to where I take in criticism and adapt quickly without getting flustered and staying future oriented. I work well under stress, others don't but universal statements, whether from a guy with a Masters or not is ignorant. Forgive me if I sound harsh, I don't like when people turn actual research into ultimate, universal truth.

[lebowski]

Good advice here. When I went to my first class recently I brought everything on the instructors list but I a couple things not on the list that I wished I'd had:

1 - a cooler full of G2 (or your hydration of choice). I don't think a camel back is necessary but I did feel like a dope not have a cooler of water/g2. Throw some cliff bars in there as well.

2 - band aids, especially if you choose to run the course w/o gloves as I do. Your hands will get nicked up which doesn't bother me but again i felt like a dope having a small cut on my fanger that just wouldn't stop bleeding and no bandaids.

3 - sunscreen (this i did have) and chapstick/blistex

4 - for clothes make sure you have some ability to layer


On the psychobabble - I've been a student in one form or another all my life. Almost without exception I learn best under stress. Maybe I'm abnormal, but I don't think so (well, at least not in this respect)

[Ando]

The role of stress in training is being misunderstood. Stress is not used to learn directly. The learning occurs when drills and movements are being demonstrated and worked through the first few times. They are then reinforced with practice and repetition. Stress is used to demonstrate that a proficiency has been achieved. Can you perform under stress? That is generally an indicator that you have learned the required drill, movement, or whatever. If we fail when stressed then what? Generally it's back to the basics, rewatch the drill, or more practice.
Stress is the test as to whether we have learned, not the learning itself.

That's not to say that we can't learn while being stressed, even Neville says "you can't efficiently learn new skills under stress."

conceding that you can learn, just not as efficiently as in other circumstances.

[wahoo95]

The role of stress in training is being misunderstood. Stress is not used to learn directly. The learning occurs when drills and movements are being demonstrated and worked through the first few times. They are then reinforced with practice and repetition. Stress is used to demonstrate that a proficiency has been achieved. Can you perform under stress? That is generally an indicator that you have learned the required drill, movement, or whatever. If we fail when stressed then what? Generally it's back to the basics, rewatch the drill, or more practice.
Stress is the test as to whether we have learned, not the learning itself.

That's not to say that we can learn while being stressed, even Neville says "you can't efficiently learn new skills under stress."nH

conceding that you can learn, just not as efficiently as in other circumstances.

Agreed

[kartoffel]

The role of stress in training is being misunderstood. Stress is not used to learn directly. The learning occurs when drills and movements are being demonstrated and worked through the first few times. They are then reinforced with practice and repetition. Stress is used to demonstrate that a proficiency has been achieved. Can you perform under stress? That is generally an indicator that you have learned the required drill, movement, or whatever. If we fail when stressed then what? Generally it's back to the basics, rewatch the drill, or more practice.
Stress is the test as to whether we have learned, not the learning itself.

That's not to say that we can't learn while being stressed, even Neville says "you can't efficiently learn new skills under stress."

conceding that you can learn, just not as efficiently as in other circumstances.

That makes sense. To contrast a couple of common sayings:

"You have to walk before you can run."
"Amateurs train until they get it right. Pros train to the point of failure."

In other words, once you can do a drill in a "pussified" environment, TURN UP THE STRESS and learn to do the drill all over again! If you can't, you're not as well trained as you think.