Chest seals

**starlight_cdn** · 06-26-11, 12:01

Halo Seals, two in a pack, entrance and exit, recommended by the CoTCCC in USA and the CCCWG in Canada. They are very effective. Cut a hole in the center and you can use them to anchor your Asherman should you need a one way valve. 'Burping' is effective too.

**l3mon** · 07-17-11, 15:16

Originally Posted by chuckman

My response is often not very popular. If you are stocking a personal first aid kit, my advice: don't get one (chest seal). I stock my kits based on probability, and in my AO and for my needs the probability of needing one is essentially nill. If your AO or needs say you 'might' need one, then go ahead. And even then the probability of using one is basically zero, so any of the brands will do.

eh..

I have to disagree entirely with you.. respectfully of course.. everyone is always taught/trained center mass right? even IPSC target focus you to center mass.. realistically I think you have a greater need for chest seals than you think..

as I said this is based on personal opinion

**cslone** · 07-18-11, 16:03

Originally Posted by starlight_cdn

Halo Seals, two in a pack, entrance and exit, recommended by the CoTCCC in USA and the CCCWG in Canada. They are very effective. Cut a hole in the center and you can use them to anchor your Asherman should you need a one way valve. 'Burping' is effective too.

Exactly.

I carry 4 sets in my kit. So simple I can even teach my guys to use them.

**chuckman** · 07-19-11, 08:50

Originally Posted by l3mon

eh..

I have to disagree entirely with you.. respectfully of course.. everyone is always taught/trained center mass right? even IPSC target focus you to center mass.. realistically I think you have a greater need for chest seals than you think..

as I said this is based on personal opinion

That's cool. I encourage debate. As I said, it depends on your AO and what you see. Where I work we average 5 GSWs a week. Out of those, maybe one is thoracic. Gang-gangers here don't shoot IPSC; if they did, we would be in trouble. EMS here does not use them, I have not spoken to the med director about this one way or the other (but I will. The med director is a former EMTP and is also a Army Res EM doc). When I was a paramedic, we had them, but rarely used them, even with penetrating trauma to the chest.

In MY experience, where I have been and what I have done, chest seals are not a priority, especially with a personal med kit. If you think you have a need, then go for it.

**yellowfin** · 07-19-11, 10:02

5 a week? Sheesh, where is that so I can avoid accidentally moving near there?!

**chuckman** · 07-19-11, 10:42

Originally Posted by yellowfin

5 a week? Sheesh, where is that so I can avoid accidentally moving near there?!

Durham, NC. Not a bad place, really....98% of GSWs are within a 8-block area.

**MessedUpMike** · 07-19-11, 14:23

I doubt you'll see chest seals in EMS. They're to expensive especially considering we can do the same thing with some tape and the wrapper off of a trauma pad/OB kit/burn sheet. You get the idea.

In 20 years I can only immediately recall seeing on candidate who needed to be sealed off, and at the point it was pretty much a done deal anyway.

Out of curiosity, why the obsession with chest seals & cavity punching but nothing about IV fluids? Rob's numbers in the other thread seem to indicate, correctly in my experience, that bleeding out of the main killer. Are IV kits to complicated (in which case why are we decompressing somebody) or are they just not sexy enough?

**MIKE G** · 07-19-11, 14:39

Originally Posted by MessedUpMike

I doubt you'll see chest seals in EMS. They're to expensive especially considering we can do the same thing with some tape and the wrapper off of a trauma pad/OB kit/burn sheet. You get the idea.

In 20 years I can only immediately recall seeing on candidate who needed to be sealed off, and at the point it was pretty much a done deal anyway.

Out of curiosity, why the obsession with chest seals & cavity punching but nothing about IV fluids? Rob's numbers in the other thread seem to indicate, correctly in my experience, that bleeding out of the main killer. Are IV kits to complicated (in which case why are we decompressing somebody) or are they just not sexy enough?

Take a TCCC course (or any modern trauma course ITLS/PHTLS, EMT CE) and you can update your knowledge and find out why IVs are not so focused anymore for penetrating trauma. Why dilute clotting factor with a substance that can not carry oxygen? As well permissive hypotension has saved many trauma patients. It is old school thinking to dump tons of fluid (3 liters crystalloid for every 1 liter estimated blood loss) on someone who has a potentially uncontrolled bleed i.e. thoracic and abdominal wounds or joint injuries that do not respond to hemostatics or basic packing.

Some agencies do use chest seals, my last agency started carrying Ashermans in '05, while not my first choice of brand they do carry them and use them quite a bit.