Discussion on BCG finishes

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Trying to compare the following:

DLC, TiN, chrome, nickel boron, robar NP3, melonite.

And to determine which ones can be done on a milspec bolt and carrier.

From what I understand, melonite must be done before heat treating.

NiB is tougher and slicker than chrome at a reasonable price.

Is there a way to chart and compare?

[Pax]

Are you also considering IonBond or FailZero EXO coatings? I know FZ hasnt been taking orders for custom EXO coatings for a while, but Im pretty sure you can still get one of their BCGs. And they're supposed to start taking orders again soon.

[JChops]

I hate to derail a thread... but are you absolutely hell-bent on using one of those coatings?

I ask because I do not think any of them offer any quantifiable advantage to the end-user.

I have used Ion Bond, Teflon-Nickel, Nickel-Boron (Exo) and NP3 on many different gun parts (including AR BCGs). While they certainly look nice and (sometimes) wipe off easy, they don't offer me a quantifiable upgrade for the amount of money invested.

I still have to use acquire and use lube, clean BCG parts and generally maintain my rifle just like I did before. The BCG and affected parts still wear.

In fact, I found many of the above coatings to be inferior to the 'ol tried and true parkerizing. I've had several of the above coatings chip, peel or—in the case of a moderately abused M60 bolt—flake off. That never happens with park.

I like new technology and all, but I'm not sold on the new push to "super coatings" fad just yet. There are too many panaceas being peddled right now and I think we should let the dust settle before wasting more money on miracle cures.

Manganese phosphate has been kicking ass on AR BCGs since the 1960s.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I hate to derail a thread... but are you absolutely hell-bent on using one of those coatings?

I ask because I do not think any of them offer any quantifiable advantage to the end-user.

I have used Ion Bond, Teflon-Nickel, Nickel-Boron (Exo) and NP3 on many different gun parts (including AR BCGs). While they certainly look nice and (sometimes) wipe off easy, they don't offer me a quantifiable upgrade for the amount of money invested.

I still have to use acquire and use lube, clean BCG parts and generally maintain my rifle just like I did before. The BCG and affected parts still wear.

In fact, I found many of the above coatings to be inferior to the 'ol tried and true parkerizing. I've had several of the above coatings chip, peel or—in the case of a moderately abused M60 bolt—flake off. That never happens with park.

I like new technology and all, but I'm not sold on the new push to "super coatings" fad just yet. There are too many panaceas being peddled right now and I think we should let the dust settle before wasting more money on miracle cures.

Manganese phosphate has been kicking ass on AR BCGs since the 1960s.

The first M16s I was issued were HC. They dated from the 1960s. They shat all over parkerizing, which the Army switched to for largely cosmetic reasons. I carried some that were 20+ years old with no signs of flaking. A most durable "fad."

Park doesn't flake off, but it does wear off very rapidly. It also causes hydrogen embrittlement, which is relevant to small, treated metal parts such as bolt lugs and extractors.

I have used HC successfully in my ARs for 20 years. I took my own HC BCG downrange and swapped out for the issue garbage.

So, yes, I'm sure.

I will gladly spend another $100 on a critical internal component before wasting money on real fads, such as 6 angles of rail gewgaw, flipping things or 19 point slings that do nothing to improve the mechanical function of the weapon.

I'm looking for Rc numbers, Cx and sources.

Thanks.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Pax: Failzero's one contender, though it looks like Spike's offers the same finish cheaper, with less hype, and lists the metallurgy of their BCG, which causes me to put them a little higher on the list.

I'm sold on electroless nickel (NiB) as a little more durable than chrome for a little more money, and several reliable shops can do it. TiN I'm of mixed feelings about. It's never made a difference on the durability of twist drills for me, but that's a different application. Melonite is proven, but a bitch to apply.

[bleaman225]

I find it funny that Spikes has FailZero coat their BCGs but sells theirs for less.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I find it funny that Spikes has FailZero coat their BCGs but sells theirs for less.

And from what I understand, it's just electroless nickel, which is not a particularly new nor proprietary finish.

[JChops]

The first M16s I was issued were HC. They dated from the 1960s. They shat all over parkerizing, which the Army switched to for largely cosmetic reasons. I carried some that were 20+ years old with no signs of flaking. A most durable "fad."

I have used HC successfully in my ARs for 20 years. I took my own HC BCG downrange and swapped out for the issue garbage.

I'm curious what you found "better" about the hard chrome BCGs over the manganese phosphated ones. When you say they "shat" on them, can you quantify why? What makes them "issue garbage" so bad that you had to replace them? (This is the first I'm hearing someone actually complaining about manganese phosphate BCGs strictly related to the finish itself.; I'm actually interested.)

Good luck in your search for info. Just be careful as there is a lot of snake oil out there with the new coatings.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Yeah, FZ hypes a very basic process a lot.

I can always stick with the hard chrome I have. There have been no issues. But if something better is cost effective, I'll upgrade as I go. Coal Creek can do me electroless nickel on an existing BCG.

But does anyone make a group that's melonited?

[Altoids]

Trying to compare the following:

DLC, TiN, chrome, nickel boron, robar NP3, melonite.

And to determine which ones can be done on a milspec bolt and carrier.

From what I understand, melonite must be done before heat treating.

NiB is tougher and slicker than chrome at a reasonable price.

Is there a way to chart and compare?

I'm interested in different coating technologies and I've been wanting to do some research on each, but I just haven't gotten started. It's a lot of information to go through and it's hard to find independent objective reviews.

I think a good place to start would be a spreadsheet similar to "The Chart". List all the characteristics of each process. Things like whether it's electroplating or electroless, whether heat treating is required and what temp, hardness, lubricity (is that the word?), thickness of coating, durability, etc. I don't know if some of those, like lubricity, are quantifiable.

I would tend to favor an electroless process because it should produce a more even thickness than electroplating. In electroplating, because of the interaction between the anode and cathode, you get different thicknesses on areas like edges or where there is no direct path between the anode and cathode. Though, the difference may be so minuscule that it doesn't matter. We're talking microns here.

So far, from my limited research, I like Nickel Boron best. But I haven't looked into DLC, TiN, or melonite.