NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4 Pattern Carbines

[callen3615]

I will have to say. I went by that chart when i purchased myy BCM. Great company, great products, I just wish they made a piston upper.

[ucrt]

I will have to say. I went by that chart when i purchased myy BCM. Great company, great products, I just wish they made a piston upper.

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...and you were doing so good...

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[MHL555]

Rob, Awesome job. Mark

[DeltaSierra]

--edit--

[munch520]

I have posted that frequently so I could reach the quota that is required to post in the exchange. I joined this site primarily to sell gear.

Good. So go sling your wares in the EE and stop polluting a great thread/topic.

[C4IGrant]

My reasons are my own. Why do you care?

That is cool.

Honestly, if you want to know why I prefer a piston gun over DI its because as a mechanically minded person, and an aspiring mechanical engineer I see DI as a flawed design.

I have been building and fixing AR's for about 10yrs now. Would you like to know which people TYPICALLY screw their guns up the most or have the most problems with their AR's? Engineers (or "aspiring" engineers).

It has been refined to be much more reliable than its prototypes. There is no doubt that DI is proven, it works. There is also no doubt that piston guns work, who claims that the AK is unreliable? The FACT is that DI requires more maintenance than a piston gun.

I have seen lots of AK's fail. I have seen lots of AR's run. There is no PERFECT system (FYI).

The DI guns is actually MUCH easier to maintain and keep running. Why? Parts availability. Start taking carbine classes with whatever piston gun you like, break or lose a part. No one in the class is going to have a spare and you cannot go to the local gun store and find any piston parts. So from a sustainability position, the piston gun is a very poor choice.

Both require cleaning, one will require it before the other will. Both get dirty, but only one gets dirty in a very important place. There are disadvantages to piston guns. It has not been standardized. There is no milspec piston system, parts are proprietary. There are more moving parts, moving parts wear. At the moment there arnt many companies making piston guns so spare/replacement parts are not compatible as no standardization has occurred yet. I personally believe piston guns are the next evolution of the AR, its really the final refinement. Some purists will never agree with that, fine. I dont care.

I had all the negative points you just covered. So you basically KNOW that piston guns are poor choice WHEN shoe horned into a DI gun.

In the future, we will see more guns built from the ground up around the piston system. These will most likely be much better in terms of reliability, accuracy and cost. As of right now though, there is little to nothing I would own in the piston market.

If you like DI then use DI, once again its proven, it works. But everyone needs to chill out on piston guns. Why does something thats alittle different make so many people so defensive?

I am not aware of anyone being defensive. It is when people think that a piston system jammed into a DI gun is a good idea that people respond.

I do understand that I am on a website called "m4carbine.net". Im not here to change peoples minds. I prefer what i prefer, why does that threaten so many people?

Like what you like (nothing wrong with that). Just be educated about it and realize that you are giving up MORE by going with a piston gun than what you THINK you are solving.

For instance, if I was going to start a "I love Piston AR's" thread, it would start off with:

1. I realize that piston guns are not as accurate.
2. I realize that I have to lube it.
3. I realize that I have to clean it.
4. I realize that I have will have to sell my soul for odd little parts from the manufacturer because NO DEALER or NEIGHBOR is going to have the parts I need.
5. I realize that I am paying more.
6. I realize that there is a weight penalty.
7. I realize that I cannot run longer rails.
8. I realize that I will have more felt recoil.

After the above is out of the way, I would then say, something like; "I think the gun is really cool and just wanted to own one."

This is a much better aproach than spouting off some nonsense about piston guns being a better choice.




C4

[C4IGrant]

Do you have hard data to prove why you drive a certain car? Or maybe why you married a certain woman?

Yes.

Why do you need hard data to make a logical decision?

You will not make a good Engineer. Switch to a Liberal Arts degree.





C4

[C4IGrant]

So I actually have a LWRC M6A2 and it rocks all day, I dont know who said they have too many oiling point. Thats just false. I put a light coat of slip 2000 EWL on the bolt and bolt carrier and I am done with it. Lasts as long as I need it to.

Also I prefer piston because it is more robust and to put it in short you're not crapping where you eat. Yes the front gets dirty but you're not dumping all that carbon into vital working areas, that is the main attraction of a piston design.

Also not to be mean or anything, but all, let me repeat that ALL military guns are either blow back or piston operated. The M4 is the only design to use DI. I wonder why that is? Reliability, durability perhaps? Just wanted to clarify a few points for those out there.

I have the same gun. Read the owners manual. There are many points to lubricate.


C4

[Iraqgunz]

There is so much wrong here, but in any case. All you need to do is read about the BCM Filty 14.

DI guns aka AR15's are very reliable when you have one that is properly made and it is properly lubed and maintained.

How much experience do you have with AR's?

How much experience do you have with firearms in general?

Crapping where you eat is gun magazine bullshit. My personal SBR which had just over 5K rounds through it (90%) suppressed before I switched rails and configurations and had ZERO malfunctions.

To date it has never had a malfunction except for two that were ammo related.

I can also buy DI parts and work on the weapon myself. Nothing proprietary to slow me down.

So I actually have a LWRC M6A2 and it rocks all day, I dont know who said they have too many oiling point. Thats just false. I put a light coat of slip 2000 EWL on the bolt and bolt carrier and I am done with it. Lasts as long as I need it to.

Also I prefer piston because it is more robust and to put it in short you're not crapping where you eat. Yes the front gets dirty but you're not dumping all that carbon into vital working areas, that is the main attraction of a piston design.

Also not to be mean or anything, but all, let me repeat that ALL military guns are either blow back or piston operated. The M4 is the only design to use DI. I wonder why that is? Reliability, durability perhaps? Just wanted to clarify a few points for those out there.

[Iraqgunz]

callen3615,

Just a few observations. I find it comical that you are citing the merits of a piston gun, yet you posted in a forum that something may be wrong with your AA piston upper causing premature wear in the upper- for whatever reason.

Anyone who says that AK's are Über-reliable is full of shit and has never used one. Ask me how I know?

You also stated that your primary reason for joining was to "sell gear". That implies that you simpy posted in order to get 30 posts to start selling. I am pretty sure that we can fix that for you so that you aren't able to sell your stuff.