Crimp or no crimp? - .223 loads w/ SMK 77 gr

**mark5pt56** · 03-20-09, 12:07

So, I lucked out and found 1 pound of Varget and 4 of H4895. I have some more SMK 77's w/cannelure enroute. Question is, I haven't crimped in the past with these, haven't had issues. Does anyone use the Lee Factory Crimp Die? I just picked one up, mainly to have.

Reading the Lee book, test state that the inconsistancies were less with a crimp vs. no crimp.

Thoughts ?

Mark

**Artos** · 03-20-09, 14:22

I'm loading 75 hornady's and have not seen any need to crimp yet....I can tell I have good neck tension when seating & always prefer to not crimp coming from a benchrest background.

**ra2bach** · 03-20-09, 15:41

you like 4895 for .223?

**sinister** · 03-20-09, 16:03

If you're going for precision you should use a neck-sizing die (I'd recommend a Redding S-die with a .245 bushing).

Crimping case mouths into bullets or merely squeezing the case necks into the bullet jacket causes inconsistencies in the jacket and core -- exactly what the bullet manufacturer was trying to PREVENT if they were making match-grade projectiles.

A properly sized neck will provide enough neck tension that you will never need to worry about bullet set-back and will be consistent enough to give uniform pressures.

**chadbag** · 03-20-09, 21:05

What kind of gun?

**mark5pt56** · 03-20-09, 21:49

This is an AR, so that neck sizing is out, well aware of that for the bolt guns.

I'll do some test, just got the crimp die. So far without crimp, I'm getting .5 to .6 with the 18" Stealth. Two different charge weights of Varget and 69/77 SMK's

I'm trying the H4895 since there's no Varget around. I called Sierra today and got the data for the 2 bullets weights.

The only other powder I've used for .223 is 748(to temp sensitive) and 4320, worked great and accurate (69 gr SMK/Oly Ultra Match)

Mark

**sinister** · 03-20-09, 22:50

Not sure what you meant by "This is an AR, so that neck sizing is out, well aware of that for the bolt guns."

The Ammo Shop at the US Army Marksmanship Unit runs every new 5.56mm Long Range case (and special runs of Infantry Trophy or special option ammo) they're going to use through a Redding S-Die with a .245. This uniforms and trues ALL necks for consistent tension.

We fired tens of thousands of these rounds per year. These are virgin Lake City cases with crimped Match primers, shipped direct from Lake City in 20mm Vulcan cannon cans).

For my own ammo I run it through a Dillon with a decapper on station 1; Redding neck S-die on station 2; Redding Small Base body die on three. I hand prime all cases with a Lee primer tool. All powder is hand thrown with a Redding BR-30 measure.

I use a separate tool head for bullet seating using a Redding or Forster Benchrest seating die (depending on bullet weight and ogive shape).

Good options if you can't get Varget are Reloader-15; VihtaVuori N135, N140, and 540; TAC (kinda dirty); and IMR or Hodgden 4895.

**ra2bach** · 03-21-09, 07:07

Originally Posted by sinister

Good options if you can't get Varget are Reloader-15; VihtaVuori N135, N140, and 540; TAC (kinda dirty); and IMR or Hodgden 4895.

how does the 4895 do?

I have some reclaimed military 4895, I believe IMR. I thought this was used in 7.62 but I also read it can be used for heavy bullets in 5.56. correct?

**mark5pt56** · 03-21-09, 07:13

Originally Posted by sinister

Not sure what you meant by "This is an AR, so that neck sizing is out, well aware of that for the bolt guns."

The Ammo Shop at the US Army Marksmanship Unit runs every new 5.56mm Long Range case (and special runs of Infantry Trophy or special option ammo) they're going to use through a Redding S-Die with a .245. This uniforms and trues ALL necks for consistent tension.

We fired tens of thousands of these rounds per year. These are virgin Lake City cases with crimped Match primers, shipped direct from Lake City in 20mm Vulcan cannon cans).

For my own ammo I run it through a Dillon with a decapper on station 1; Redding neck S-die on station 2; RCBS Small Base body die on three. I hand prime all cases with a Lee primer tool. All powder is hand thrown with a Redding BR-30 measure.

I use a separate tool head for bullet seating using a Redding or Forster Benchrest seating die (depending on bullet weight and ogive shape).

Good options if you can't get Varget are Reloader-15; VihtaVuori N135, N140, and 540; TAC (kinda dirty); and IMR or Hodgden 4895.

As I understand, some people only neck size when shooting the same brass in one bolt gun since the casing is "formed" to that chamber.

Ignorant on the use of the Redding die? Does it do something the small base die doesn't do?

Right now, I have the Lee set, including the hand tool. Along with the bullets, I do have the RCBS small base die set on the way. I have the Lee perfect powder measure and check it with an old Ohaus scale-I check that with a check weight. One day I need to get some more "precision equipment" Small time operation on an old Lee single stage.

keep it coming!