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Thread: S&W Melonite coated barrel vs Noveske chrome lined barrel.

  1. #101
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    Im glad to hear that i was wrong about the 556 barrel. Mjolnir: I gotta say that if i was Sig or Bushy/Rem i too would advertise the nitride treatment as well as tout claims about being tougher than CL.

    SomeOtherGuy: After i read your post i went and inspected my 556 barrel and found it to match your general description when compared to my AR. The only thing im left wondering is: The outside of the barrel has that dull but transparent (black) look but as far as i can tell, the inside of the barrel is just bare steel color. So, does the nitride treatment "color" the barrel? If it does, why wouldn't the inside of the barrel match the exterior? BTW: the exterior looks very similar to the pictures of the Rock barrel a couple post up.

    rsilvers: I really appreciate the info. Makes me wonder if the HK MR556 barrels are nitrided as well. As far as you know, has Sig continued to nitride their 556 barrels? I ask because my suspicious mind was convincing me to think that when Sig dropped their 556 prices they also might have cut the nitride process and then "pulled" that spec from their ads.

    I found it interesting that on Wiki it states that Glock barrels are "85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish". Thats gotta at least count for something in the nitride vs. CL debate.
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 07-05-11 at 23:09.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    SomeOtherGuy: After i read your post i went and inspected my 556 barrel and found it to match your general description when compared to my AR. The only thing im left wondering is: The outside of the barrel has that dull but transparent (black) look but as far as i can tell, the inside of the barrel is just bare steel color. So, does the nitride treatment "color" the barrel? If it does, why wouldn't the inside of the barrel match the exterior? BTW: the exterior looks very similar to the pictures of the Rock barrel a couple post up.
    The dark gray/black color on the outside is from an additional finishing step (basically parkerizing from what I understand) used on the outside but not on the inside. I believe the nitride by itself is basically clear or slightly milky.

  3. #103
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    I still find it difficult to believe that the HK MR556A1 has an "untreated" barrel.

    If someone has their barrel cut down please contact me as I'd like the cut portion analyzed to determine what was done to it during manufacturing. It's pretty easy if you have access to the equipment.
    "One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep..."

  4. #104
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    There is no reason to think Sig stopped nitriding.

    The MR556 is not nitrided.

    Nitrided carbon steel barrels are more corrosion resistant than stainless barrels.

    Also most stainless becomes *less* corrosion resistant when nitrided, so if you nitride, do it to carbon steel. In other words, it is good that the Glock is carbon steel.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    There is no reason to think Sig stopped nitriding.

    The MR556 is not nitrided.

    Nitrided carbon steel barrels are more corrosion resistant than stainless barrels.

    Also most stainless becomes *less* corrosion resistant when nitrided, so if you nitride, do it to carbon steel. In other words, it is good that the Glock is carbon steel.
    Yep, the S&W M&P should have had a low carbon steel slide...
    "One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep..."

  6. #106
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    Again, thanks for the info guys. This whole time i have been heavily under the impression my 556 barrel was untreated. Even though i personally probably wouldn't have ever seen the difference, i'm much happier knowing that it is.

    I just saw a post on HKpro that an HK rep confirmed the MR556 has no treatment.

    ETA: Yeah i just read on wiki where after the Tenifer process a black park is added on the Glock.

    Not promoting LWRC (never even held one) but this vid shows their gun taking a long salt bath and then cleaning up pretty nicely. I found it interesting that in the shot of the gas block the black finish was largely worn off but there still didnt seem to be any corrosion on the bare (but nitrided) surfaces.

    http://youtu.be/cdbwHqwol10

    ETA #2 I was comparing the interior of my 556 barrel with a couple of my unlined/untreated barrels and i guess it IS a very dark shade inside. I also tried to put a little scratch on the exterior with a pen knife and it wouldn't leave a mark (not on the glock either). On my AR, AK, Sig 522 and Rem. 722 the knife scratched the park/bluing with little effort. The nitride surfaces were noticably harder (as already known of course).
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 07-06-11 at 02:55.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfscheer View Post
    Since salt bath nitriding process temperatures are near 1000F, and the one we're trying is a bit less, I'm most concerned about undoing the previous heat treat of the barrel extension and barrel steel. There seems to be no question that precision barrels (meaning unchromed) will gain a lifetime extension, but it's not clear yet that the side effects are worth it. We shall see.
    My guy reported that the nitride company he went through cited that the nitride temp wasn't enough to "alter the heat treat on the barrels or extensions." He also spoke to Rock Creek and they also cited that the temps shouldn't be a problem. My guy went on to explain that "a lot of steel is cycled through similar temperatures as a stress relieving step after heat treat anyway. This is with chrome-moly/chrome-moly-vanadium type steels" He went on to state tat it's possible that there are "some concerns with some of the stainless alloys" and that stainless is a poor choice for the normal nitriding process, but that there are "supposedly some modified processes being developed for better results with stainless."
    Last edited by urbankaos04; 07-06-11 at 03:22.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbankaos04 View Post
    My guy reported that the nitride company he went through cited that the nitride temp wasn't enough to "alter the heat treat on the barrels or extensions." He also spoke to Rock Creek and they also cited that the temps shouldn't be a problem. My guy went on to explain that "a lot of steel is cycled through similar temperatures as a stress relieving step after heat treat anyway. This is with chrome-moly/chrome-moly-vanadium type steels" He went on to state tat it's possible that there are "some concerns with some of the stainless alloys" and that stainless is a poor choice for the normal nitriding process, but that there are "supposedly some modified processes being developed for better results with stainless."
    Seems like good advice maybe but you guys should think twice before treating parts that are critical to safe operation through an irreversible heat treatment without the ability to destructively test to verify. To me, it would be especially ironic for someone to be running a Mil-Spec HPT/MPI bolt in conjunction with a barrel that was once HPT/MPI certified but is now in unknown condition. The big concern is that without extensive testing, you really have no idea what has happened to your safety margins.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    I just saw a post on HKpro that an HK rep confirmed the MR556 has no treatment.
    100% no treatment during finishing in USA. But HK Gmbh is usually very tight-lipped about what they do to their barrels back at Oberndorf (and what alloy exactly they use to make those barrels).

    Modern HK pistol barrels are supposedly also unlined... and I'm still to see rusting one.

    Also my MR223 barrel, that is not chrome lined and spent last 3 years in humid basement (and cleaned from time to time, if I'm in the mood) is yet to show any sign of rust or wear (while add on equipment like muzzle device or screws on mounts show rust very fast).

    Some friends put huge amount of ammo (like 50.000+) trough SL8 that has only chamber chromed and bore looks and shoots like new.

    Anyway, if someone will cut MR556 barrel and have left of examined, I'm very interested in findings. Also some extreme rust tests can be performed on leftover.
    Montrala

    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Kahles, Hornady and Typhoon Defence brands in Poland, so I can be biased

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by montrala View Post
    100% no treatment during finishing in USA. But HK Gmbh is usually very tight-lipped about what they do to their barrels back at Oberndorf (and what alloy exactly they use to make those barrels).

    Modern HK pistol barrels are supposedly also unlined... and I'm still to see rusting one.

    Also my MR223 barrel, that is not chrome lined and spent last 3 years in humid basement (and cleaned from time to time, if I'm in the mood) is yet to show any sign of rust or wear (while add on equipment like muzzle device or screws on mounts show rust very fast).


    Some friends put huge amount of ammo (like 50.000+) trough SL8 that has only chamber chromed and bore looks and shoots like new.

    Anyway, if someone will cut MR556 barrel and have left of examined, I'm very interested in findings. Also some extreme rust tests can be performed on leftover.
    Yeah, in all honesty i would very pleased to have an HK barrel on any or all of my guns regardless of lining/treatment. HK is pricey but i have no reason to doubt their decisions when it comes to making a barrel (profiling could be argued but im still not overly "turned off" over the heavier profile like some). My 06' USPc 45's barrel finish and bore are spotless but i thought it was treated

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