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Thread: S&W Melonite coated barrel vs Noveske chrome lined barrel.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Because a surface treatment that is microns thick cannot resist a jet flame into steel which is a conductor of heat.

    I don't need to explain anything further, its simple science.
    Then show us the science. Show us substanial proof that one wears better or worse then the other with similar use and under similar conditions.

    Do you realize how stupid your argument is? Its like saying you can't take a blow torch and cut through a Glock slide because it has a melonite/tenifer treatment.
    lulz....wait, what? <looks around> My argument? Stupid? I'm not the one hooting and hollering without any facts. Matter of fact, I havn't made any statements one way or the other on this subject.

    All I did was ask you to back up what you're saying with facts, numbers, real data that can be verified.

    You still have yet to do that.

    Barrel treatments are not put on to prevent throat erosion. They are put there to prevent the rifling from wearing out due to bullets traveling down the bore.
    So give us the stats. Chrome lining thickness, nitrocarburiding depth, rockwell hardness of each, corrosion resistance, etc.

    Shouldn't be that hard. You seem to "feel" very strongly about this so you must have some facts on your side that justify such a strong emotional response.

    What would you rather have?

    1. A barrel that is more resistant to throat erosion (which is something I can realistically measure with a throat erosion gauge) which will maintain is accuracy over a longer period of time and be more resilient to heavy amounts of rapid fire.

    2. A barrel that has a theoretical unproven life, with an amount of ammunition that costs 100 times more than what the gun costs in the first place.
    Prove that one is better then the other with something other then conjecture. You say you "can" measure thoat erosion, so have you measured throat erosion on a melonite treated barrel and a chrome lined barrel with similar round counts? You "can", but have you?

    So provide some facts already.

    C'mon, you can do that, can't you?


    Also, the cost of the ammunition is irrelevant. HK did that when they did the G36 desert tests. It's not uncommon for manufacturers to test the crap out of their newest guns. And don't forget that S&W's price on that ammo is far less then yours or ours.

    You gotta come up with a better argument then that. As well as some facts.

  2. #22
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    Please stop with the attacks on one another.



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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Please stop with the attacks on one another.
    I apologize if anything I have said has come across as an attack. My only intent is to have the facts be brought out to back up the claims.

  4. #24
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    Grumpy,

    I'm not one of Sotts fans, not because of what he says generally, but because of the delivery. With that out I think in this case what he says makes perfect sense. To me it's unrealistic for one member to demand "proof" on questions such as these. Unless we work in a field that directly applies to metallurgy and coatings and such we will not have it.

    Most of us are end users of one sort or another, not scientists. We rely on the manufacturers and military testing, along with our own years of experience to make the decisions we can live with in our tools or toys, whatever the case may be. I think anyone that has access to the net can find some reports or tests that you require. If Scott, like me, believes what he does, based on his level of experience, knowledge, and/or training, he probably does not care a whit to take the time to research something that does not concern him. Most of us won't take the time to research many science based facts in our life, that doesn't make the facts less real.

    This is not a personal attack on you at all. I find it ironic that people consistently scream at one another for facts when they have the same capability as most members of taking the time to look for and post them.
    "The peace we have within us is most often expressed in how we treat others"

  5. #25
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    Delete

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyM4 View Post
    I apologize if anything I have said has come across as an attack. My only intent is to have the facts be brought out to back up the claims.

    Do you really believe a glock slide can withstand a blow torch because it has a melonite/tenifer treatment? I noticed how you couldn't answer and didn't addres this point in your poor rebuttal.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Barrel treatments are not put on to prevent throat erosion. They are put there to prevent the rifling from wearing out due to bullets traveling down the bore.
    Really? Can you go ahead and provide me with some solid data to back that up?

    The fact is throat erosion is what kills barrels, not the rifling wearing out down the length of the bore.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Do you really believe a glock slide can withstand a blow torch because it has a melonite/tenifer treatment? I noticed how you couldn't answer and didn't addres this point in your poor rebuttal.
    I do not get your point, and I do respect your knowledge around here. But, what part on a AR or for that matter any weapon could withstand a blow torch?? I guess it would depend on how long the blow torch was held against the part.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilove2shoot View Post
    there are a lot of factors to compare here. whose barrel blank did they start, that makes the bigget difference for accuacy.

    now if we are just talking durability between chrome and Melonite. Melonite by a mile.

    *Melonite is harder then Chrome lining (Melonite is 70 rockwell). *Melonite is not a finish that is applied onto the surface of the barrel, it heats treats the barrel material itself.
    *Mil-Spec chrome lined barrels have chrome that is .0003" to .0005" thick. while the Melonite hardens the material .005" deep.
    *Melonite covers the inside and outside of the barrel.
    *Melonite will not start chipping away with extended use since it is not a surface covering like chrome.

    Melonite will not make a crappy barrel into a fantastic barrel. it is just more durable. a very big factor in my book is the quality of barrel used to begin with.
    Thanks for the info.

    It would be interesting to see more info on the barrel tests at S&W and if in fact they did run 170K through 2 barrels and there was no detrimental loss in performance.

    It would be nice to afford a barrel to barrel comparison with Melonite vs CL, using the same quality steel to begin with...as well as the 1/8 gain twist that S&W used in both to limit the variables.

    I do realize that the S&W prototypes are their basic entry model but I was just curious about the barrel's performance specifically.

    I do know which one I'd grab when it came to a Noveske vs S&W

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr71plane View Post
    I do not get your point, and I do respect your knowledge around here. But, what part on a AR or for that matter any weapon could withstand a blow torch?? I guess it would depend on how long the blow torch was held against the part.

    Melonite cannot prevent throat erosion. Surface hardness of material does not affect a materials resistance to a pressurized jet of hot flame.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

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