Emergency Reloads - dropping or ripping?

[cowpuncher]

I now stay away from dropping mags, specifically ar mags because one of my mags got damaged that way and wouldnt allow the round to feed into the chamber after 1 shot. I had to chamber a round using the charging handle which would work until that round was fired.
What works for me and what I do for a living, is to retrieve a full mag and reload the full mag while placing the already used mag back in my mag pouch if it still has rounds or in my dump pouch if empty.
It works for me and keeps my speed up and my rifle always has a round in the chamber while I reload.
I love this site and readin everyones tactics, it's great!

Assuming from your avatar in ACUs and FLC, that you are a soldier, I'll just point out that tac reloads work a lot better in a firefight if you have a support-by-fire element and a fireteam or rifle squad of buddies taking up the slack. As a young hooah, we were taught to speed reload the first mag change to develop and maintain a base of fire, but after that, to perform tac reloads (I'm old enough that we shoved spent mags down the front of our BDU t-shirt....)

A solo shooter or a two-man buddy team doesn't really have as much leeway to keep their gun down as long. I can run a smoking fast tac reload, but nowhere near as fast as I can get my gun back up with a speed reload. I'd much rather pony up the $12 for a new mag occasionally than the cost of a funeral for myself or wife or kid because I was worried about bending feedlips. Besides, as Alaskapopo pointed out, doctrinally speaking, mags ARE an expendable item. If you're getting bent feed lips/mag damage, talk to supply bro.

[4x4twenty6]

alaskapopo:
i agree that mags are disposable items, especially when your dept. gives you extras/replacements when ever you ask, SCORE! ... but when dropping them causes the mags to get damaged to the point where they are not feeding properly, which tactic is more life threatening at that point?

As an officer who carried a patrol rifle on duty and as a swat operator i think ill stick to my controlled mag release and retention techniques. its what works for me based on my experience and training.

working in the greater new orleans area we didnt have snow to cushion the fall of the mag. haha. (just a joke a brother and i know that there isnt always snow on the ground).
stay safe out there.

[4x4twenty6]

cowpuncher: i was a swat operator w/ my last department and that pic was taken at a swat training week on vessel and port security. great class by the way! i cropped the other three guys out the photo for various reasons.

i see your point though, its just how we were trained. military and leo seem to share a lot of tactics. but based on what i have learned from other people who i believe are good, thorough instructors that served in both the military and leo capacity. somethings dont always translate from one to the other. my brother in law who was around since i was a very young boy served in the marines and we have learned a lot from each other comparing and contrasting tactics.

after dropping a mag during a patrol rifle class a few years ago and blowing the course of fire cuz one of them got damaged i was made an example of how mag control should be a part of your training.

if a mag falls w/ rounds in it and gets damaged you have to strip those rounds and reload a good mag to use them. kinda sucks.

i am only speaking from my law enforcement/ SWAT Training and experience.

[cowpuncher]

I dig what you're saying bro. Even when I teach classes, I tell people, don't change to my way if what you're already doing is working better for you with your needs. I think in a SWAT context (I'm not LEO and never have been), the same paradigm exists as for the .mil light infantry....you've got guys watching your six and pulling your slack while you're reloading/clearing your weapon. In that context, I see nothing wrong with the tac reload/RWR. For the solo individual who, for whatever conceivable reason is engaging enough hostiles that he needs a reload, he's going to be a lot better off either transitioning to his sidearm, or running a speed reload (obviously METT-TC dependent), just to maintain that continuity of fire.

[4x4twenty6]

cowpuncher: your pretty much right on.
when it comes to regular patrol and deploying a rifle you are either on your own or with hopefully 1 or 2 other people so you are gonna do what you have to do to win and apply appropriate tactics.

if you have good cover (not a patrol car) or concealment then great, if not you gotta do what ever you can. we did extensive malfunctions drills where we immediately transitioned to our side arm. that shit was drilled into us.

also we were only given 2 20rd mags when we got our colts. we carried the 11.5" barrel in semi-auto. ill defend that rifle against any argument cuz i purposefully beat the dog shit out of it and it took every bit of it.

anyway we all carried many more loaded mags.

[tgace]

I put together some video once comparing MY reload speed with combinations of stripping mags, dropping mags, using the slide release and slingshotting.

For what it's worth:

http://tgace.wordpress.com/2011/01/1...gency-reloads/

I was working more for smooth vs as fast as I could go, but even then you can see the speed differences between the variations. For me at least.

[4x4twenty6]

Great video!
i like using the slide release, its there why not use the sucker.

bad thing about using the off hand slide release method is that i have seen people in the range under stressful situations (not by my standards but the one fumbling with the gun) riding that slide forward and causing a malfunction. they didnt let the mechanics of the gun do its job.

i also try to practice keeping my eyes up on target while reloading. makes reaquiring target much easier. i like to bring the gun in close for the reload and then punch out while beginning to squeeze. sometimes i would do it perfect other times i would blow it royally! haha practice like its the real thing as often as possible.

i carried the beretta px4 storm 9mm with my last department and my academy class was the first to get issued the new guns several years back. well, a few of us were over zealous reloaders and discovered if you slammed the magazine in good and hard it would simultaneously release the slide and chamber a round.

pretty awesome except im not sure if thats what it was intended to do or if it was good for the gun. never had it happen on other pistols i have a fired but still pretty cool nonetheless and makes for a hair quicker reload.

[Iraqgunz]

Have you considered using certain mags for training only? Another thought is that if you used PMAG's damaged feedlips won't really be an issue. In a combat situation I would careless if my mags get lost, damaged or otherwise.

alaskapopo:
i agree that mags are disposable items, especially when your dept. gives you extras/replacements when ever you ask, SCORE! ... but when dropping them causes the mags to get damaged to the point where they are not feeding properly, which tactic is more life threatening at that point?

As an officer who carried a patrol rifle on duty and as a swat operator i think ill stick to my controlled mag release and retention techniques. its what works for me based on my experience and training.

working in the greater new orleans area we didnt have snow to cushion the fall of the mag. haha. (just a joke a brother and i know that there isnt always snow on the ground).
stay safe out there.

[4x4twenty6]

iraqguns:
i have never used the pmags but there were a few guys on the team that carried those and standard steel mags and i never heard anything bad about them. i think they are pretty cool, especially the ones where you can see how many rounds you have left.

as for using certain ones for training only, never considered it. good idea though.

as for the whole dropping mags during reloads and such, on swat we always trained to reload before we went empty and retain mags. the reloading technique we used made it easy to retain the used mag and either dump it if its empty or store it back in the mag pouch to re use.

we all understand that in real world applications all kinds of shit can happen and some tactics can go out the window but thats why you train like its the real thing.

[Surf]

iraqguns:
i have never used the pmags but there were a few guys on the team that carried those and standard steel mags and i never heard anything bad about them. i think they are pretty cool, especially the ones where you can see how many rounds you have left.

as for using certain ones for training only, never considered it. good idea though.

as for the whole dropping mags during reloads and such, on swat we always trained to reload before we went empty and retain mags. the reloading technique we used made it easy to retain the used mag and either dump it if its empty or store it back in the mag pouch to re use.

we all understand that in real world applications all kinds of shit can happen and some tactics can go out the window but thats why you train like its the real thing.

Welcome to the forums!

I would be very interested in what agency / unit is teaching this and their exact reasoning. I would also be interested in their instructors background / frame of reference for where they learned to teach the methods that you describe.